"Young" Master Gandalf - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

02-28-2004, 08:08 PM

Hi!! I'm new in this forum and I think this is one of the best forums out there dedicated to the works of Tolkien!

I just have a question.

Why did Treebeard call Gandalf as "Young Master Gandalf"?

We know that the Ents were in Arda since the beginning of the creation and they are the older race there - pls forget thoughts and discussions about Tom Bombadil now - But Gandalf is a Maia who existed even before the creation of Middle-Earth. He was even mentioned in Valaquenta in Sil.

So, Why did Treebeard call him young?

Nirvana II · 02-28-2004, 09:07 PM

Treebeard was one of the first Ents....Ents first appeared in the FIRST AGE......Gandalf came at the beginning of THIRD AGE, when his life technically began, as he was in the Undying Lands, or Valinor

The Only Real Estel · 02-28-2004, 09:15 PM

Echoing Nirvana, I think Treebeard was referring to Gandalf's actual life in Middle Earth.

Nirvana II · 02-28-2004, 09:17 PM

i thought of another reason.....disregard the powers bequeathed to Olorin in the beginning by Iluvatar.......Ents are still really old, and compared to them Gandalf would still be really young

Kransha · 02-28-2004, 09:25 PM

Is there an echo in here?

Yes, I believe Treebeard was merely referring to the fact that Gandalf and the other Istari only appeared physically on Arda in the Third Age, whereas Ents have been around since the first. Also, one could say that Gandalf is technically of a mortal age, though he's still Maiar. The Ent, Fangorn, has seen more of the world than Gandalf.

Nirvana II · 02-28-2004, 09:33 PM

im glad to get an echo from ya'll

Noxomanus · 02-29-2004, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kransha
Is there an echo in here?

Yes, I believe Treebeard was merely referring to the fact that Gandalf and the other Istari only appeared physically on Arda in the Third Age, whereas Ents have been around since the first. Also, one could say that Gandalf is technically of a mortal age, though he's still Maiar. The Ent, Fangorn, has seen more of the world than Gandalf.

I suppose that's the case and plus, Treebeard didn't know what the Istari were.

Nirvana II · 02-29-2004, 10:40 AM

Treebeard did know what the Istari were, Mithrandir told him in the beginning of the third age when they met.

symestreem · 02-29-2004, 12:00 PM

Maybe he did it to get Gandalf's goat.

peonydeepdelver · 02-29-2004, 12:30 PM

I think it was simply to show that Treebeard had been in Arda much longer than Gandalf, and so was in a way older than him. Almost like how Legolas called Aragorn and Gimli children on the edge of Fangorn Forest (which happens in the book).

Noxomanus · 03-01-2004, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nirvana II
Treebeard did know what the Istari were, Mithrandir told him in the beginning of the third age when they met.

Where do you have that one from?? Don't forget Treebeard himself said in TT in the 'Treebeard'-chapter that he didn't know much about the Wizards and he also calls Curumo 'the young Saruman at Isengard.'

Nirvana II · 03-01-2004, 02:15 PM

i believe he said the War of the Ring was a WIZARDS war, the only known people called wizards are also known as the Istari.

Noxomanus · 03-02-2004, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nirvana II
i believe he said the War of the Ring was a WIZARDS war, the only known people called wizards are also known as the Istari.

Knowing what is a Wizard and what isn't does not mean you know what the origins or intentions of the Wizard are.

For example, I might know what a dog is and what isn't but I might still not know they were bred from wolves.

02-28-2004, 08:08 PM	#1
shadow_lady Guest Posts: n/a	"Young" Master Gandalf Hi!! I'm new in this forum and I think this is one of the best forums out there dedicated to the works of Tolkien! I just have a question. Why did Treebeard call Gandalf as "Young Master Gandalf"? We know that the Ents were in Arda since the beginning of the creation and they are the older race there - pls forget thoughts and discussions about Tom Bombadil now - But Gandalf is a Maia who existed even before the creation of Middle-Earth. He was even mentioned in Valaquenta in Sil. So, Why did Treebeard call him young?

02-28-2004, 09:07 PM	#2
Nirvana II Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: The Yellow Submarine....sandwich Posts: 207	Treebeard was one of the first Ents....Ents first appeared in the FIRST AGE......Gandalf came at the beginning of THIRD AGE, when his life technically began, as he was in the Undying Lands, or Valinor __________________ Это - российская вещь, Вы не поняли бы. Вы - пончик желе! Я оказался снова. Частное сообщение меня, если Вы понимаете.

02-28-2004, 09:17 PM	#4
Nirvana II Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: The Yellow Submarine....sandwich Posts: 207	i thought of another reason.....disregard the powers bequeathed to Olorin in the beginning by Iluvatar.......Ents are still really old, and compared to them Gandalf would still be really young __________________ Это - российская вещь, Вы не поняли бы. Вы - пончик желе! Я оказался снова. Частное сообщение меня, если Вы понимаете.

02-28-2004, 09:25 PM	#5
Kransha Ubiquitous Urulóki Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The port of Mars, where Famine, Sword, and Fire, leash'd in like hounds, crouch for employment Posts: 747	Is there an echo in here? Yes, I believe Treebeard was merely referring to the fact that Gandalf and the other Istari only appeared physically on Arda in the Third Age, whereas Ents have been around since the first. Also, one could say that Gandalf is technically of a mortal age, though he's still Maiar. The Ent, Fangorn, has seen more of the world than Gandalf. __________________ "What mortal feels not awe/Nor trembles at our name, Hearing our fate-appointed power sublime/Fixed by the eternal law. For old our office, and our fame," -Aeschylus, Song of the Furies

02-28-2004, 09:33 PM	#6
Nirvana II Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: The Yellow Submarine....sandwich Posts: 207	Should insulate this place im glad to get an echo from ya'll __________________ Это - российская вещь, Вы не поняли бы. Вы - пончик желе! Я оказался снова. Частное сообщение меня, если Вы понимаете.

02-28-2004, 09:15 PM	#3
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	Echoing Nirvana, I think Treebeard was referring to Gandalf's actual life in Middle Earth.

02-29-2004, 10:40 AM	#8
Nirvana II Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: The Yellow Submarine....sandwich Posts: 207	Treebeard did know what the Istari were, Mithrandir told him in the beginning of the third age when they met. __________________ Это - российская вещь, Вы не поняли бы. Вы - пончик желе! Я оказался снова. Частное сообщение меня, если Вы понимаете.

02-29-2004, 12:00 PM	#9
symestreem Face in the Water Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 728	Maybe he did it to get Gandalf's goat.

02-29-2004, 12:30 PM	#10
peonydeepdelver Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alas, I hail from Massachusetts Posts: 256	I think it was simply to show that Treebeard had been in Arda much longer than Gandalf, and so was in a way older than him. Almost like how Legolas called Aragorn and Gimli children on the edge of Fangorn Forest (which happens in the book). __________________ "Nazgul, Nazgul! You speak of what is deep beyond the reach of your muddy dreams, Ugluk! Nazgul! Ah! All that they make out! One day you'll wish that you had not said that. Ape! You ought to know that they're the apple of the Great Eye." ~Grishnakh

03-01-2004, 02:15 PM	#12
Nirvana II Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: The Yellow Submarine....sandwich Posts: 207	i believe he said the War of the Ring was a WIZARDS war, the only known people called wizards are also known as the Istari. __________________ Это - российская вещь, Вы не поняли бы. Вы - пончик желе! Я оказался снова. Частное сообщение меня, если Вы понимаете.