Gimli's Portrayal in the Movies

[GreatWarg]

I go through these posts here in the Movies, and I noticed something. First of all, that there are very few topics at all about Gimli. I found a grand total of five. Second of all, that most fangirls seem to take him as just sort of 'there' or totally ignore him.<P>I believe that Peter Jackson ended up just using Gimli as mostly comic relief in The Two Towers (ie: with Eomer, the box-thing). Worst of all, fangirls take this to heart and think of him as 'ugly' or 'unimportant.'<P>Gimli son of Gloin may not be a light-footed Elf, nor is he a 'cute hobbit with adorable big eyes,' or even a Man in all his... manliness. Nonetheless, he is still an important character, and a force to be reckoned with.<P>Personally, I think fangirls just can't abide that Gimli is so much manlier than Legolas. <P>What do all you other guys think?

[Imladris]

Well, in LotR (the books), both Legolas and Gimli are all sort of there, in my opinion. They fight and the Fellowship probably wouldn't have succeeded without them, but they don't do anything really pivotal in the books (I consider them like background: without the background the picture isn't there, isn't complete). Gimli, if I recall, was also the comic relief in the books as well (for instance, that whole scene about blindfolding the dwarf was hilarious, his little speech with Eomer, the head counting game at Helm's Deep, when he met Merry and Pippin at Orthanc and many others). <P>Seriously, can you imagine a lumbering dwarf riding behind a slim elf upon a horse? What PJ did, in my opinion, was take the dwarven race and conjecture what would happen to a dwarf if he was put in certain circumstances.<P>Forgive me for mentioning Legolas upon a Gimli topic, but whenever I think of Legolas I think of Gimli and vice versa. Granted, Gimli does look a bit rough, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that he was manlier than Legolas...<P>I always thought that fan girls preferred Legolas because he was handsomer... <P>All in all, I think that PJ did a pretty good job portraying Gimli.<p>[ November 07, 2003: Message edited by: Imladris ]

[Finwe]

I rather think that the reason Gimli is so ignored is that he just doesn't compare to Legolas, Aragorn, or *shudder* Frodo (I've got no idea what Nazgirls see in Frodo). Honestly, if you think a Dwarf is attractive, then you've got some serious problems! It's all a matter of attractiveness and those manly good looks.

[The Saucepan Man]

Neither Legolas nor Gimli are really fleshed out in the Books. Their greatest moments are the competiton at Helm's Deep and the resolution of their intial enmity (resulting in their mutual agreement to indulge one another's interests in Aglarond and Fangorn).<P>So what to do with them in the films? Well, Elves are fair and exceptionally talented and a fit young actor is cast in the role of Legolas. So it follows that he will be given the "young hearthrob" role (Viggo generally gets the 25+ vote), together with the cool stunts.<P>What to do with the Dwarf? Well, he is a redoubtable warrior, and this is portrayed in the films. But I think that there is a book basis for Dwarves as comical characters. Particularly in the Hobbit - remember Bombur - but also in the way that Gimli's character was written in LotR, as Imladris has pointed out.<P>My own view is that they went a bit over the top. One or two "short Dwarf" jokes are fine, but too much of it does somewhat detract from his stature (forgive the pun ). I did wince at the "Dwarf tossing" revisited in TTT (just as I winced at Legolas' shield surfing), but these running jokes/characteristics do appeal to a large part of the audience, so I can understand why they did it. <P>And on the whole, it really doesn't bother me too much. At least they were given characters, which really was rather necessary given their background status in the Books.

[The Only Real Estel]

I agree with Saucy that it was 'over the top', & that it got old quickly, especially the short jokes . His line to Eomer was fine & funny, & his line to Aragorn about not telling the elf was a little funny but badly placed & really would've done better being left out. Not saying that it wasn't an okay one, I much prefer that over the short/box jokes. I <B>to</B> think that PJ made him a little to comical.<BR> <BR>P.S. Obviously not a big point, but I wish they'd found a way to announce Gimli & Legolas's totals at Helm's Deep . Perhaps they'll include that in the TTT EE...

[Arwen1858]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> P.S. Obviously not a big point, but I wish they'd found a way to announce Gimli & Legolas's totals at Helm's Deep . Perhaps they'll include that in the TTT EE... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I wish they had, too. *mild spoiler* Rumor has it that they will have it in TTT EE.

[Legolas]

I think it was fairly obvious (most likely) that the orc-killing competition was actually filmed and left out of Two Towers. The silly thing (well, one out of the multitude of silly things that went on) is that they left in a bit where Legolas and Gimli are counting early on in the fight, already just shy of half-way through their numbers in the book. If it's not in the special edition, maybe they will bring it up later on.<P>I didn't like the repeated use of Gimli for comic relief (just as I didn't like some of the other written-for-movies jokes). Legolas, Aragorn, and Gimli are running after a band of orcs carrying Merry/Pippin. They know they can't compete with all those orcs in a head-to-head battle. They've had little to eat, no rest, and they just keep going and going. Two of their friends have already died and it seems as if two others were released to go to their own certain deaths. They're trying to save the remaining two friends. The end of the world is imminent, and Gimli has all of this time to crack jokes? Just too much, I think.<p>[ November 08, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ]

[Imladris]

Hmmm...I don't really see where you think that Gimli is cracking too many jokes (granted, the "tossing" thing was a joke). I was actually surprised that when Gimli was telling Eowyn about dwarves, that that information is actually in the appendixes.<P>PJ, in my opinion, is stuck between a rock and a hard place. On one hand, he has the LotR fans who want to keep the characters and story as true as possible and on the other hand he has the ones who have never even heard of LotR. The books are quite dark and not a lot of people like dark. So he sprinkles a little humour in to lighten the mood, thus pleasing hopefully the majority of people except for those who think Gimli's the humour relief (which he is, even in the book).<P>I can only think of just two "short" joke that wasn't in the book (the tossing thing and "or would you like me to get you a box"). The others are in the book...except for him falling off the horse.

[Meela]

I didn't like Gimli being only used for comic relief, but there were some good (though small) moments with him as a warrior and a valued companion, or at least I felt that.<P>I wish PJ had included more on the dwarves and their environment, although what he put in was pretty good.

[ArathorofBarahir]

I liked the way that Gimli was protrayed in the movies. I mean yes sometimes the comic relief was a bit unneccessary sometimes, but other times it was justified. However the way that John Rhyes Davies portayed Gimli during the battle sequences it truly magnificent.

[Lyta_Underhill]

I always took exception to the fact that PJ portrayed Gimli as tiring out on the run in TTT! Gimli does tire, but only when he loses hope. Otherwise, there is none of this "breathe...got to remember to breathe" stuff going on. Gimli could go on until Doomsday! The part I wished to have seen was Gimli's challenge to Eomer concerning Galadriel. This could have been parleyed into a great end of ROTK joke with Eomer confronting Gimli and telling him he still didn't think Galadriel was the fairest. "Then I must go for my axe," Gimli's wonderful (and funny to me!) response, but then that could intro the Arwen/Aragorn scenes...probably not enough time, but I missed that Gimli/Eomer interaction. And I don't know whether they will include Gimli's "look of a hobbit's foot," line in ROTK, but I can barely bear to think of that yet! Nothing in a movie could do justice to Tolkien's description of Pippin's experience at the Gate of Morannon...<P>Oh, and <B>Finwe</B>, I'm no Nazgirl, but have very eclectic tastes, which DO include said Frodo that makes you shudder (not sure why he has THAT effect)! But I must include in the taste arena Fëanor, and Maedhros and Finrod, et. al., my favorite elves side by side with my favorite hobbits! Strangely enough, Legolas doesn't make that list, probably because I can't tell that much about him beyond the background in the books and the hotdogging in the movies. (I'm not actually sure what the requirements are for "Nazgirl," really! Somehow I don't think I want to know! )<P>Cheers,<BR>Lyta

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I agree Lyta. Gimli's debate with Eomer over Galadriel was, for me, one of the funniest parts in the book and I hope they find room for it in the extended DVD.<P>While Gimli is obviously a funny, warm hearted character in the book, I don't think the filmmakers quite understood the type of humour he had. It was simple, pleasant humour that everyone can laugh with. It wasn't slapstick.

[Finwe]

Well, forgive me Lyta, I never meant to call you a Nazgirl. And yes, I also consider Maedhros, Feanor, and most of the Feanorians to be quite good-looking. <P>Oh wait, now I sound like a damn, incestuous, inbred git. Sorry everyone!

[GreatWarg]

From one short post on Gimli to Maedhros and Fëanor... oh my! Meaning no offence to you Fëanorian lovers out there, of course.<P>My my, I seem to have unintentionally started something against PJ...<P>I am hoping, though I do not know why, that PJ will find a way to tell that Legolas and Gimli left together for the Undying Lands. Just a touch of their deep friendship, you know, instead of these comedian jokes going on between Legolas and Gimli he seems to love adding in.<P>Also looking forward to perhaps seeing Gimli and Eomer argue over which lovely Elf is most fair. If not, well then, he must be very silly indeed.

[The Saucepan Man]

It seems to me, though, that many of the "Gimli humour" parts in the films do serve to emphasise the reconciliation between Legolas and Gimli that characterises their roles in the Books.<P>The exchange between them on the battlements of Helm's Deep is the banter of two friends, and Gimli's concern over Legolas learning of him being tossed is akin to the concern that one friend might feel over another learning of an embarrassing episode.<P>As I said, I think that it is over the top, but there is a basis for it in the Books.<P>Probably Gimli's worst moment is falling off the horse on the way to Helm's Deep. That was truly gratuitous. But then again, he managed to get the horse sufficently under control to get it into a position whereby Legolas could do a wholly unrealistic back (breaking) flip onto it.

[Knight of Gondor]

I did enjoy Gimli's portrayal as done by John Ryce-Davis. I've never seen John in anything else, but his acting is quite delightful. Somehow, that think voice, the way he pants and breathes are all audibly appealing. However, don't take this to mean I'm a part of any faction that devotes its time to fawning after movie characters. I scoff at those! I just enjoyed his performance.<P>Somehow, though, Gimli is lots different from John Ryce-Davis himself. For one thing, I don't think the man can speak a sentence (at least on EE footage) without spouting the D-word. :\<P>By the way (Mild spoiler alert), yes, the final count of Gimli's and Legolas's competition will be on the EE.

[Lindir]

I agree, he's there for some comic relief, but he's a good warrior. Sturdy, and he won't let anyone get past him, or whatever. He may not be as cute as the hobbits...except for frodo *shudder*, and not as attractive as Legolas. but he's great. John Rhys-Davies did a great job playing him.

[Nimrothiel]

About the short jokes; they weren't that bad, and as stated earlier they helped to lighten the mood for non-LotR fans. My personal favorite is the "Would you like me to get you a box?" Imagine if he actually DID get Gimli a box!!

[Theron Bugtussle]

<B>GreatWarg</B> - Fangirls are indeed interested in dwarves. But only those fangirls with beards.<P><B>Imladris</B> - Was the joke "Dwarves are natural sprinters" in the book? I didn't think so...<P>I am conflicted about the movies' treatment of Gimli. I see the comic sidekick element as okay if not taken over the top. Which I think it is. <P>But PJ also does away with some of the richness of Gimli's character. Like the Khazad-Dum poem he recites in Moria. And how much his ability to keep up with the Man and the Elf over such a long hunt in Rohan impresses Eomer. He says it will be sung about in the future. That is not conveyed. (I understand we may see some of his gallantry in the FotR-EE in asking for a lock of Galadriel's hair.)

[Finwe]

I don't think PJ gave John much of a chance to portray Gimli's inner nobility and amiability. True, he has a gruff, rough exterior. But inside, he is a very wonderful, noble person. Look at the encounter with Galadriel. He was cultured enough to appreciate true beauty, and Galadriel, even though she was an Elf, recognized that appreciation, and rewarded it. He was also open-minded and amiable enough to strike up a very close friendship with Legolas, and thus, begin the healing of the ages-long rift between Elves and Dwarves. Anyone who accomplishes that is noble in my book!