The Mouth of Sauron - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

steve · 09-27-2003, 04:43 PM

I have found some proof, I think it is very relyable source, that the mouth of sauron if in RotK, because some of you have said he may not be. I was looking for the 9mm LotR movie figgures and I came accrost a pre order for the mouth of sauron, and since all the figgures are from the movie, im thinking that he will be in it.

HCIsland · 09-27-2003, 05:47 PM

The Mouth of Sauron was definately filmed. He was played by a man named Bruce Spence. There is a picture floating around of him getting his make-up on.H.C.

Knight of Gondor · 09-27-2003, 08:35 PM

Yep, I saw that category on Amazon.com for the "Deluxe edition Mouth of Sauron". But there's more proof: Ian McKellen mentions The Mouth of Sauron throwing down the mithril coat during a re-shoot. So I think we can rest assured.

kharank · 09-28-2003, 01:54 PM

POSSIBLR SPOILERS!!!POSSIBLE SPOILERS!!!I read somewhere that in the final battle before the Black Gates, Aragorn does battle with an armoured figure. Some thought this may be Sauron, others said that the Mouth Of Sauron was a more likely candidate. There were definite spy reports from set of a tall armoured figure, and some rumours of redesigning, because he 'looked too much like Sauron'. This sounds like the Mouth Of Sauron will definitely be in the film cut, or they wouldnt have gone to all that trouble...

**The Saucepan Man** · 09-28-2003, 07:07 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> He was played by a man named Bruce Spence. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Indeed. Bruce Spence will play the Mouth of Sauron. He is an Australian actor who played the aviator in one of the "Mad Max" films - "Mad Max 2" I think.I am not so sure that it will be the Mouth of Sauron battling with Aragorn before the Black Gate, though. Everything that I have seem suggests that it will be Sauron himself ...

09-29-2003, 08:08 AM

Ohhhhhhhh kewlish..! I'm looking forward... oooohh... The mouth.... Thanks for the information.....

Balin999 · 09-29-2003, 01:54 PM

Oh my god that seems like pure commerce. Why would Sauron need to fight Aragorn if he had such a big army that could crush Aragorn and his army about 50 times? I guess I'll be cursing again on the 17th of December, like I did last year.

Elladan and Elrohir · 09-29-2003, 04:10 PM

I don't see how it could be Sauron himself, when Peter Jackson seems to think that Sauron is nothing more than an eye that cannot adopt physical form yet (see Saruman's words to Gandalf in FOTR movie).

**The Saucepan Man** · 09-29-2003, 07:39 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Peter Jackson seems to think that Sauron is nothing more than an eye that cannot adopt physical form yet (see Saruman's words to Gandalf in FOTR movie) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>As you say, Saruman says to Gandalf in FotR that Sauron cannot assume physical form yet. That does not preclude him being able to take physical form by the end of RotK. In the Book, I believe that he had physical form throughout, albeit that he was never seen, so he did not need the Ring to acheive this.If it's true, I actually think that Sauron appearing on the battlefield himself at the Black Gate could work well, provided it's done properly. My only concern is that it will overshadow the Mouth of Sauron, and possibly diminish his role.

Maéglin · 09-29-2003, 07:56 PM

The bit about the reshoot of a character who was too similar to Sauron, it was the Witch King parts that was reshot, not the Mouth of Sauron. All the footage in the trailer does seem to point to Sauron NOT taking physical form although that could be just a ploy to surprise the audience. Maybe we will see Sauron in physical form when Pippin dares to look into the Palantir.

The Only Real Estel · 09-30-2003, 07:42 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>There were definite spy reports from set of a tall armoured figure, and some rumours of redesigning, because he 'looked too much like Sauron'. This sounds like the Mouth Of Sauron will definitely be in the film cut, or they wouldnt have gone to all that trouble...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Isn't it a bit doubtful that it was the Mouth of Sauron? I think that if the entire thing wasn't cut, it's Sauron.

Finwe · 10-01-2003, 08:57 PM

I believe the armored figure was Sauron, and that the whole flaming cat eye trapped on that tall tower was a misinterpretation of Sauron's Eye. For all we know, Sauron could have actually had a semi-physical form (missing a finger of course!) and his eye(s) could have been flaming.P.S. Poor git! He couldn't flick anyone off again!

doug*platypus · 12-21-2003, 06:27 PM

I thought I'd drag this thread out from hiding so it could be beaten around a bit more. Seems like many people are upset about the Mouth of Sauron being left out of The Return of the King.Some are holding out hope that he will be reinstated for the extended edition, but I doubt it: I heard the unmistakable Australian Drawl of Bruce Spence (crazy gyro man from Mad Max) at the Harlond. Tie me Orkaroo down, mate! There's no confusing him with someone from Mordor (err, yeah, nice work on the dialogue coaching there, team!). Since he was the actor rumoured to be playing Mouth, I can only conclude that his character was called the Mouth of Sauron, but had his role dramatically cut down a la Shagrat. Any thoughts?

**The Saucepan Man** · 12-21-2003, 06:41 PM

Well, Bruce Spence definately did appear on some of the earlier cast lists as the Mouth of Sauron. I am hoping that he will be in the EE, although it's difficult to see how the scene will be incorporated into the Black Gate sequence. Perhaps just before Aragorn gives Theoden's ( ) speech? They did, after all, make much play of Frodo's mithril mail being taken in the Cirith Ungol scene.

Kalimac · 12-21-2003, 07:00 PM

Saucepan Man - I also remember seeing him listed on IMDB as the Mouth of Sauron, so I'm still holding out hope for the EE. Actually, you could cut the Mouth in after Aragorn's speech pretty nicely. The gates open a crack (if I remember correctly, there are several cuts back and forth when the gates start to open, I mean, it's not like it's one long shot which shows plainly that there's an army there). The Mouth comes out, does his thing, throws down the mailshirt, which is picked up by...someone or other, then everyone charges. In fact, it would add a lot of resonance to Aragorn saying "For Frodo!" The line isn't exactly meaningless now, but it would be pretty powerful if, instead of meaning "To give Frodo a chance at destroying the Ring!" it meant "To avenge Frodo's death and die with honour, now that everything is lost and we're hopelessly up the creek."

Lord Elrond · 12-22-2003, 11:46 AM

I agree that this is the strongest possibility. I really don't see Sauron fighting hand to hand in another battle. The eye on top of Barud Dur would be very difficult for the public to understand if Sauron in a physical form showed up. I think the mouth of Sauron is definitly more likely and would fit in without disturbing the rest of the film.

Rose Cotton · 12-22-2003, 01:02 PM

Perhaps Peter didn't put the Mouth in because he didn't think it was nessasary.In the books, the Mouth makes us think that the quest is over and that Frodo has been captured by Sauron for good. That's because the last time we saw him he was being carried off by orc. However, you couldn't have gotten that in the movie because we know perfectly well by then that Frodo and Sam are still going.However, I would have loved to see the Mouth of Sauron. I think it would have added more meaning the final battle.

Elladan and Elrohir · 12-22-2003, 06:18 PM

Good points, Rose.

Elrond of Rivendell · 12-22-2003, 06:37 PM

The Mouth of Sauron will doubtlessly appear in the EE of RotK. I read about this in the most serious German magazine (Der Spiegel) I know about and I usually trust its informations. It actually quotes an interview with Viggo Mortensen who presents the EE as filled with bonus material including Denethor's using the Palantir of Minas Tirith (perhaps only indirectly referred to by Gandalf in a voice-off), further explanations about Eowyn and Faramir (there will be a scene at teh Houses of Healing), some details about Saruman (on this point, V. Mortenses was depicted by the journalist as rather reticent), and a scene where a messenger (in German Bote, which does not mean explicitly Mouth) from Sauron brings the clothing of the two hobbits before the Black Gate. <A HREF="http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/kino/0,1518,279232,00.html" TARGET=_blank>Article (in German)</A> Greetings, EfR

09-27-2003, 04:43 PM	#1
steve Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edoras... er, Philadelphia Posts: 191	The Mouth of Sauron I have found some proof, I think it is very relyable source, that the mouth of sauron if in RotK, because some of you have said he may not be. I was looking for the 9mm LotR movie figgures and I came accrost a pre order for the mouth of sauron, and since all the figgures are from the movie, im thinking that he will be in it. __________________ MAGIC SHOP! Spells of Mass Destruction 20% off! Today Only!

09-27-2003, 05:47 PM	#2
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	The Mouth of Sauron was definately filmed. He was played by a man named Bruce Spence. There is a picture floating around of him getting his make-up on.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

09-27-2003, 08:35 PM	#3
Knight of Gondor Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 744	Yep, I saw that category on Amazon.com for the "Deluxe edition Mouth of Sauron". But there's more proof: Ian McKellen mentions The Mouth of Sauron throwing down the mithril coat during a re-shoot. So I think we can rest assured. __________________ Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16

09-28-2003, 01:54 PM	#4
kharank Animated Skeleton Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 31	POSSIBLR SPOILERS!!!<P>POSSIBLE SPOILERS!!!<P>I read somewhere that in the final battle before the Black Gates, Aragorn does battle with an armoured figure. Some thought this may be Sauron, others said that the Mouth Of Sauron was a more likely candidate. There were definite spy reports from set of a tall armoured figure, and some rumours of redesigning, because he 'looked too much like Sauron'. This sounds like the Mouth Of Sauron will definitely be in the film cut, or they wouldnt have gone to all that trouble... __________________ High Lord Kharank has spoken

09-28-2003, 07:07 PM	#5
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> He was played by a man named Bruce Spence. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Indeed. Bruce Spence will play the Mouth of Sauron. He is an Australian actor who played the aviator in one of the "Mad Max" films - "Mad Max 2" I think.<P>I am not so sure that it will be the Mouth of Sauron battling with Aragorn before the Black Gate, though. Everything that I have seem suggests that it will be Sauron himself ... __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

09-29-2003, 08:08 AM	#6
The Shoulder Guest Posts: n/a	Ohhhhhhhh kewlish..! I'm looking forward... oooohh... The mouth.... Thanks for the information.....

09-29-2003, 01:54 PM	#7
Balin999 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2000 Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon Posts: 493	Oh my god that seems like pure commerce. Why would Sauron need to fight Aragorn if he had such a big army that could crush Aragorn and his army about 50 times?<BR>I guess I'll be cursing again on the 17th of December, like I did last year. __________________ ...Nichts ist gelber als Gelb selber... ...The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, but conformity... ...Everything is possible, except to ski through a revolving door...

09-29-2003, 04:10 PM	#8
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	I don't see how it could be Sauron himself, when Peter Jackson seems to think that Sauron is nothing more than an eye that cannot adopt physical form yet (see Saruman's words to Gandalf in FOTR movie). __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

09-29-2003, 07:39 PM	#9
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Peter Jackson seems to think that Sauron is nothing more than an eye that cannot adopt physical form yet (see Saruman's words to Gandalf in FOTR movie) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>As you say, Saruman says to Gandalf in FotR that Sauron cannot assume physical form <I>yet</I>. That does not preclude him being able to take physical form by the end of RotK. In the Book, I believe that he had physical form throughout, albeit that he was never seen, so he did not need the Ring to acheive this.<P>If it's true, I actually think that Sauron appearing on the battlefield himself at the Black Gate could work well, provided it's done properly. My only concern is that it will overshadow the Mouth of Sauron, and possibly diminish his role. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

09-29-2003, 07:56 PM	#10
Maéglin Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 99	The bit about the reshoot of a character who was too similar to Sauron, it was the Witch King parts that was reshot, not the Mouth of Sauron.<BR>All the footage in the trailer does seem to point to Sauron NOT taking physical form although that could be just a ploy to surprise the audience. Maybe we will see Sauron in physical form when Pippin dares to look into the Palantir.

09-30-2003, 07:42 PM	#11
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>There were definite spy reports from set of a tall armoured figure, and some rumours of redesigning, because he 'looked too much like Sauron'. This sounds like the Mouth Of Sauron will definitely be in the film cut, or they wouldnt have gone to all that trouble...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> Isn't it a bit doubtful that it was the Mouth of Sauron? I think that if the entire thing wasn't cut, it's Sauron.

10-01-2003, 08:57 PM	#12
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	I believe the armored figure was Sauron, and that the whole flaming cat eye trapped on that tall tower was a misinterpretation of Sauron's Eye. For all we know, Sauron could have actually had a semi-physical form (missing a finger of course!) and his eye(s) could have been flaming.<P>P.S. Poor git! He couldn't flick anyone off again! __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

12-21-2003, 06:27 PM	#13
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	I thought I'd drag this thread out from hiding so it could be beaten around a bit more. Seems like many people are upset about the Mouth of Sauron being left out of <I>The Return of the King</I>.<P>Some are holding out hope that he will be reinstated for the extended edition, but I doubt it: I heard the unmistakable Australian Drawl of Bruce Spence (crazy gyro man from Mad Max) at the Harlond. Tie me Orkaroo down, mate! There's no confusing him with someone from Mordor (err, yeah, nice work on the dialogue coaching there, team!). <P>Since he was the actor rumoured to be playing Mouth, I can only conclude that his character was called the Mouth of Sauron, but had his role dramatically cut down <I>a la</I> Shagrat. Any thoughts? __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

12-21-2003, 06:41 PM	#14
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Well, Bruce Spence definately did appear on some of the earlier cast lists as the Mouth of Sauron. I am hoping that he will be in the EE, although it's difficult to see how the scene will be incorporated into the Black Gate sequence. Perhaps just before Aragorn gives Theoden's ( ) speech? They did, after all, make much play of Frodo's mithril mail being taken in the Cirith Ungol scene. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

12-21-2003, 07:00 PM	#15
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	Saucepan Man - I also remember seeing him listed on IMDB as the Mouth of Sauron, so I'm still holding out hope for the EE. Actually, you could cut the Mouth in after Aragorn's speech pretty nicely. The gates open a crack (if I remember correctly, there are several cuts back and forth when the gates start to open, I mean, it's not like it's one long shot which shows plainly that there's an army there). The Mouth comes out, does his thing, throws down the mailshirt, which is picked up by...someone or other, then everyone charges. In fact, it would add a lot of resonance to Aragorn saying "For Frodo!" The line isn't exactly meaningless now, but it would be pretty powerful if, instead of meaning "To give Frodo a chance at destroying the Ring!" it meant "To avenge Frodo's death and die with honour, now that everything is lost and we're hopelessly up the creek." __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

12-22-2003, 11:46 AM	#16
Lord Elrond Animated Skeleton Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Buffalo Posts: 38	I agree that this is the strongest possibility. I really don't see Sauron fighting hand to hand in another battle. The eye on top of Barud Dur would be very difficult for the public to understand if Sauron in a physical form showed up. I think the mouth of Sauron is definitly more likely and would fit in without disturbing the rest of the film. __________________ "May the blessing of Elves, Men, and other free peoples go with you"

12-22-2003, 01:02 PM	#17
Rose Cotton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: A place worse then Mordor........School! Posts: 1,075	Perhaps Peter didn't put the Mouth in because he didn't think it was nessasary.<P>In the books, the Mouth makes us think that the quest is over and that Frodo has been captured by Sauron for good. That's because the last time we saw him he was being carried off by orc. <P>However, you couldn't have gotten that in the movie because we know perfectly well by then that Frodo and Sam are still going.<P>However, I would have loved to see the Mouth of Sauron. I think it would have added more meaning the final battle. __________________ "There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?)

12-22-2003, 06:18 PM	#18
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	Good points, Rose. __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

12-22-2003, 06:37 PM	#19
Elrond of Rivendell Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 261	The Mouth of Sauron will doubtlessly appear in the EE of RotK. I read about this in the most serious German magazine (Der Spiegel) I know about and I usually trust its informations. It actually quotes an interview with Viggo Mortensen who presents the EE as filled with bonus material including Denethor's using the Palantir of Minas Tirith (perhaps only indirectly referred to by Gandalf in a voice-off), further explanations about Eowyn and Faramir (there will be a scene at teh Houses of Healing), some details about Saruman (on this point, V. Mortenses was depicted by the journalist as rather reticent), and a scene where a messenger (in German Bote, which does not mean explicitly Mouth) from Sauron brings the clothing of the two hobbits before the Black Gate. <BR><A HREF="http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/kino/0,1518,279232,00.html" TARGET=_blank>Article (in German)</A><BR>Greetings,<BR>EfR