Gandalf's Symbol--an Elvish letter??? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Child of the 7th Age · 07-14-2002, 09:20 AM

There was an earlier question about Tolkien's symbol. Now, I'd like to know about Gandalf's symbol that appears in the letter he left for the hobbits in the chapter entitled "Strider."

It's a straight vertical line, with two separate branches sticking out to the right plus four dots, one on each side--top, bottom, right, and left. Look in the chapter to see it. Is this an Elvish letter? I think so, but would appreciate some help.

piosenniel · 07-14-2002, 11:41 AM

Child -

The symbol is a cirth:

from Encyc. of Arda

Quote:

Dates: Predate the beginning of the First Age
Origins: First devised by Rúmil of Tirion1
Meaning: From Old Norse rún, meaning a magical symbol2
Other Names: Cirth

A system of writing based on angular shapes that could easily be carved into wood or stone. Originated by Rúmil and greatly developed by Daeron of Doriath to represent Sindarin words, runes came to be used widely by races other than the Elves, and especially by the Dwarves.

You can also read about them in ROTK, Appendix E

The particular one you mentioned was the rune representing 'G'. I don't know why it has the 4 dots arranged around it - other than for effect, or possible that it is meant to stand alone as his initial.

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 07-14-2002, 01:12 PM

In the Chapter Unexpected Party, the rune is mentioned too, on the fireworks boxes. It says it is an Elvish "G". It also says the Hobbit children said the rune was "G for Grand!" How did they know it was a G?

Child of the 7th Age · 07-14-2002, 01:35 PM

Thanks Pio for your help. You can always count on an Elf to know about runes and things!

As to why the hobbits knew the rune, that is a good question. It suggests a level of familiarity by the hobbits with things Elvish which the book as a whole doesn't imply. I would guess that Bilbo had told this to the children in his stories. Their parents probably wouldn't have known, but the children remembered. Bilbo certainly preferred the company of younger ones, rather than his own peers.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

akhtene · 07-14-2002, 07:56 PM

Is it that cirth had the same function as Latin alphabet in modern times? Latin letters are known to people who use other characters in their native languages. Some of them have long ago become just symbols. As cirth runes were used a lot for inscriptions, couldn't they be familiar to different peoples of M-E at least by sight?

Sarin Elfarmour · 07-24-2002, 04:56 PM

the hobbit children recognized the G rune because it was used by most of the "speaking peoples" of ME at one time or another, Bilbo was learned in writings he himself might have taught them

07-14-2002, 09:20 AM	#1
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Gandalf's Symbol--an Elvish letter??? There was an earlier question about Tolkien's symbol. Now, I'd like to know about Gandalf's symbol that appears in the letter he left for the hobbits in the chapter entitled "Strider." It's a straight vertical line, with two separate branches sticking out to the right plus four dots, one on each side--top, bottom, right, and left. Look in the chapter to see it. Is this an Elvish letter? I think so, but would appreciate some help. __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

07-14-2002, 01:12 PM	#3
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	In the Chapter Unexpected Party, the rune is mentioned too, on the fireworks boxes. It says it is an Elvish "G". It also says the Hobbit children said the rune was "G for Grand!" How did they know it was a G? __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

07-14-2002, 01:35 PM	#4
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Thanks Pio for your help. You can always count on an Elf to know about runes and things! As to why the hobbits knew the rune, that is a good question. It suggests a level of familiarity by the hobbits with things Elvish which the book as a whole doesn't imply. I would guess that Bilbo had told this to the children in his stories. Their parents probably wouldn't have known, but the children remembered. Bilbo certainly preferred the company of younger ones, rather than his own peers. sharon, the 7th age hobbit __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

07-14-2002, 07:56 PM	#5
akhtene Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: stronghold of the North Posts: 390	Is it that cirth had the same function as Latin alphabet in modern times? Latin letters are known to people who use other characters in their native languages. Some of them have long ago become just symbols. As cirth runes were used a lot for inscriptions, couldn't they be familiar to different peoples of M-E at least by sight? __________________ Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока...

07-24-2002, 04:56 PM	#6
Sarin Elfarmour Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 43	the hobbit children recognized the G rune because it was used by most of the "speaking peoples" of ME at one time or another, Bilbo was learned in writings he himself might have taught them __________________ Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-menu