I'm so confused... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Greyhame · 09-16-2002, 01:04 AM

Please help!!! This question has been haunting me... Could someone tell me the relation between Beleriand (the setting for the Silmarillion) and western Middle-earth (the setting for Hobbit and LOTR)? I have a pretty good grasp on the geographies of each realm, but I can't find any maps that link them in any way! Is this because of the lands being twisted after the First Age, or what? I'll sleep so much better once I get this figured out. Thanks!

burrahobbit · 09-16-2002, 01:22 AM

Beleriand was off to the side of Eriador, where the Shire is, but then it fell into the water. The Blue Mountains, Ered Luin, are where they touched.

[ September 16, 2002: Message edited by: burrahobbit ]

Joy · 09-16-2002, 01:24 AM

Greyhame, I really wish that I had a map of this!

The best that I can tell you is that the Blue Moutains, which are in the East of Beleriand, line up with the Land of Middle Earth.

The River Lhûn lines up with the River Ascar. If this is correct, then the Brandywine could be reminents of the River Brilthor.

This may not be exactly correct, but I hav seen that Nogrod was around the region of Mithlond from several other maps.

Hope this helps.

PS. I don't think we've had a proper introduciton. Mae govannan Greyhame. Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo. Well met, a star shines on the hour of our meeting.

elengil · 09-16-2002, 07:32 AM

Yah, the Blue Mountains that had been to the East of Beleriand are now the same Blue Mountains that run along the West coast of Middle Earth after Beleriand fell into the sea.

Frodo Baggins · 09-16-2002, 08:10 AM

All right Greyhame, I'll try to help. If you look at a map of Beleriand you will se that tword the extreme east (right) of the map, there are the Ered Luin, the Blue Mountains. Those are the same Blue Mountains that are west of the Shire and near the tower hills. In the final battle with Morgoth when he was thrown into The Void for good, the sead were bent and the world was made round. most of Beleriand was submerged, all most all the way to the Blue Mountains. THe only remianing part of Beleriand is the Grey Havens on the west side of the Blue Mountains. Hope that helps. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Greyhame · 09-16-2002, 05:47 PM

Thank you all very much for the help... It makes a lot more sense to me now.

Child of the 7th Age · 09-16-2002, 06:30 PM

Greyhame --

Welcome to the Downs. Hope we run across each other again!

If you get to the library or bookstore, take a look at the Atlas of Middle Earth by Karen Fonstad. She has a map on pages 38-39 that show how the submerged lands actually line up with what was left of Middle-earth in the Second Age. She uses a light jagged line under the ocean to show you. Plus you can clearly see the three islands that weren't submerged--Tol Fuin, Tol Morwen, and Himling--and where they sit in the waters.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

Mithuial · 09-16-2002, 07:55 PM

That is totally one of my favorite books. I'm always flipping through it when I'm bored, and it's so useful while reading the books! I'm always going to a diagram of something or other while I'm reading about it in LotR. And I think that another name for that book should be "Lands in the Silmarillion Made Easy" because it really helped me to understand things better while I was reading it for the second time this summer.

Birdland · 09-17-2002, 12:13 AM

Thank you, Chile'! I'd been wishing I could find a map that superimposed First Age Middle earth over Third Age, so you could see what was left after the "Great Inundation". Though Fonstad's map is a little faint. I wish there were a map that was a bit more "readable".

Selmo · 09-17-2002, 05:17 AM

Hello.

I'm a new member at The Barrow-Downs but not new to Tolkien.
I'm an aging English hobbit who's been reading the Professor's work for more than forty years.

Here's the address of a map of Middle Earth in the First Age that shows Beleriand and the areas familliar to us from The Lord of The Rings:
[url="http://groups.msn.com/TolkiensRing/mapsofmiddleearthandthewest.msnw?action=ShowPhoto& PhotoID=274[URL=null"]null]http://groups.msn.com/TolkiensRing/mapsofmiddleearthandthewest.m snw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=274null

[ September 17, 2002: Message edited by: Selmo ]

Estelyn Telcontar · 09-17-2002, 07:58 AM

Welcome, Selmo! Looks like you, along with several of the other posters on this thread (you know who you are, gals [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ) are eligible for the newly-founded Tolkien Coming of Age Club! Please look in and introduce yourself there!

09-16-2002, 01:04 AM	#1
Greyhame Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: illinois Posts: 42	I'm so confused... Please help!!! This question has been haunting me... Could someone tell me the relation between Beleriand (the setting for the Silmarillion) and western Middle-earth (the setting for Hobbit and LOTR)? I have a pretty good grasp on the geographies of each realm, but I can't find any maps that link them in any way! Is this because of the lands being twisted after the First Age, or what? I'll sleep so much better once I get this figured out. Thanks! __________________ Poo-tee-weet?

09-16-2002, 01:22 AM	#2
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	Beleriand was off to the side of Eriador, where the Shire is, but then it fell into the water. The Blue Mountains, Ered Luin, are where they touched. [ September 16, 2002: Message edited by: burrahobbit ] __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

09-16-2002, 01:24 AM	#3
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,012	Greyhame, I really wish that I had a map of this! The best that I can tell you is that the Blue Moutains, which are in the East of Beleriand, line up with the Land of Middle Earth. The River Lhûn lines up with the River Ascar. If this is correct, then the Brandywine could be reminents of the River Brilthor. This may not be exactly correct, but I hav seen that Nogrod was around the region of Mithlond from several other maps. Hope this helps. PS. I don't think we've had a proper introduciton. Mae govannan Greyhame. Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo. Well met, a star shines on the hour of our meeting. __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

09-16-2002, 07:32 AM	#4
elengil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: eryn lasgalen Posts: 91	Yah, the Blue Mountains that had been to the East of Beleriand are now the same Blue Mountains that run along the West coast of Middle Earth after Beleriand fell into the sea. __________________ No fairer words were ever spoke - Than of immortal Elvish folk - Who shone forth bright eternal light - When under stars they first awoke

09-16-2002, 08:10 AM	#5
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	All right Greyhame, I'll try to help. If you look at a map of Beleriand you will se that tword the extreme east (right) of the map, there are the Ered Luin, the Blue Mountains. Those are the same Blue Mountains that are west of the Shire and near the tower hills. In the final battle with Morgoth when he was thrown into The Void for good, the sead were bent and the world was made round. most of Beleriand was submerged, all most all the way to the Blue Mountains. THe only remianing part of Beleriand is the Grey Havens on the west side of the Blue Mountains. Hope that helps. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."

09-16-2002, 05:47 PM	#6
Greyhame Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: illinois Posts: 42	Thank you all very much for the help... It makes a lot more sense to me now. __________________ Poo-tee-weet?

09-16-2002, 06:30 PM	#7
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Greyhame -- Welcome to the Downs. Hope we run across each other again! If you get to the library or bookstore, take a look at the Atlas of Middle Earth by Karen Fonstad. She has a map on pages 38-39 that show how the submerged lands actually line up with what was left of Middle-earth in the Second Age. She uses a light jagged line under the ocean to show you. Plus you can clearly see the three islands that weren't submerged--Tol Fuin, Tol Morwen, and Himling--and where they sit in the waters. sharon, the 7th age hobbit __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

09-16-2002, 07:55 PM	#8
Mithuial Animated Skeleton Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Doriath Posts: 35	That is totally one of my favorite books. I'm always flipping through it when I'm bored, and it's so useful while reading the books! I'm always going to a diagram of something or other while I'm reading about it in LotR. And I think that another name for that book should be "Lands in the Silmarillion Made Easy" because it really helped me to understand things better while I was reading it for the second time this summer. __________________ "And Maglor answered: 'If it be truly the Silmaril which we saw cast into the sea that rises again by the power of the Valar, then let us be glad; for its glory is seen now by many, and is yet secure from all evil.' Then the Elves looked up, and despaired no longer, but Morgoth was filled with doubt." -The Silmarillion.

09-17-2002, 12:13 AM	#9
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	Thank you, Chile'! I'd been wishing I could find a map that superimposed First Age Middle earth over Third Age, so you could see what was left after the "Great Inundation". Though Fonstad's map is a little faint. I wish there were a map that was a bit more "readable".

09-17-2002, 05:17 AM	#10
Selmo Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Shire (Staffordshire), United Kingdom Posts: 273	Hello. I'm a new member at The Barrow-Downs but not new to Tolkien. I'm an aging English hobbit who's been reading the Professor's work for more than forty years. Here's the address of a map of Middle Earth in the First Age that shows Beleriand and the areas familliar to us from The Lord of The Rings: [url="http://groups.msn.com/TolkiensRing/mapsofmiddleearthandthewest.msnw?action=ShowPhoto& PhotoID=274[URL=null"]null]http://groups.msn.com/TolkiensRing/mapsofmiddleearthandthewest.m snw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=274null [ September 17, 2002: Message edited by: Selmo ]

09-17-2002, 07:58 AM	#11
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Welcome, Selmo! Looks like you, along with several of the other posters on this thread (you know who you are, gals [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ) are eligible for the newly-founded Tolkien Coming of Age Club! Please look in and introduce yourself there! __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'