Sauruman's fate - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

10-11-2003, 07:07 PM

if sauron would have won the war of the ring, what would have he done with sauruman.

Finwe · 10-11-2003, 07:38 PM

Saruman probably would have tried to take over part of Eriador, but Sauron would have eventually stamped him out, since "there is one Lord of the Rings, and he does not share power." Saruman had been deluded into thinking that there was an alliance between him and Sauron. An alliance exists between equals (for the most part) who have honorable intentions. I don't think Sauron EVER had honorable intentions about anything. He was just using Saruman to do his grunge work, and after his usefulness was over, Sauron would just get rid of the White Wizard.

Iarwain · 10-11-2003, 09:23 PM

In addition to what Finwe said, in the Return of the King, Tolkien's semi-omniscient narrator gives us a glimpse into Sauron's intentions for the rule of Western Middle-Earth, namely that the "Mouth" was to assume Saruman's previous role.

Iarwain

Alatariel · 10-11-2003, 10:47 PM

Also, Sauron would have been quite put out with Saruman for trying to seize the hobbits and ring for himself. In TTT, He tells Pippen through the Palantir:

Quote:

"Tell Saruman that this dainty is not for him."

With "this dainty" meaning the hobbits and the ring. Like Finwe said, he would probably have kept Saruman around as long as he was useful, then replaced him with a more malleable underling, like the Mouth as Iarwain pointed out. Under Sauron, Saruman would never have attained the power he desired, even if he hadn't tried to grab the hobbits before Sauron could get them.

[ October 12, 2003: Message edited by: Alatariel ]

Lost One · 10-12-2003, 10:24 AM

Once Sauron had the Ring, I don't think he would have felt Saruman to be threat to him, despite knowing of his ambitions to be a Ring-bearer himself. We are told, after all, that Frodo would be kept alive and punished by viewing in anguish Sauron holding the Ring. He might also have found Saruman useful (since the Nazgul had their limitations), and perhaps enjoyed having another subverted Maia at his beck and call. The Mouth of Sauron's comments later on followed Saruman's failure and fall, and may not have been the original plan.

Finwe · 10-12-2003, 12:31 PM

I don't think Sauron expected Saruman to ever find the Ring, or take possession of it. He just thought that the Wizard's "feeble" attempts to find the Ring would distract his enemies long enough for Sauron to attack them, and vanquish them. Saruman would just serve as a distraction, not as any real weapon.

10-11-2003, 07:07 PM	#1
isatri Guest Posts: n/a	Sauruman's fate if sauron would have won the war of the ring, what would have he done with sauruman.

10-11-2003, 07:38 PM	#2
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Saruman probably would have tried to take over part of Eriador, but Sauron would have eventually stamped him out, since "there is one Lord of the Rings, and he does not share power." Saruman had been deluded into thinking that there was an alliance between him and Sauron. An alliance exists between equals (for the most part) who have honorable intentions. I don't think Sauron EVER had honorable intentions about anything. He was just using Saruman to do his grunge work, and after his usefulness was over, Sauron would just get rid of the White Wizard. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

10-11-2003, 09:23 PM	#3
Iarwain Pugnaciously Primordial Paradox Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Birnham Wood Posts: 800	In addition to what Finwe said, in the Return of the King, Tolkien's semi-omniscient narrator gives us a glimpse into Sauron's intentions for the rule of Western Middle-Earth, namely that the "Mouth" was to assume Saruman's previous role. Iarwain __________________ "And what are oaths but words we say to God?"

10-12-2003, 12:31 PM	#6
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	I don't think Sauron expected Saruman to ever find the Ring, or take possession of it. He just thought that the Wizard's "feeble" attempts to find the Ring would distract his enemies long enough for Sauron to attack them, and vanquish them. Saruman would just serve as a distraction, not as any real weapon. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

10-12-2003, 10:24 AM	#5
Lost One Haunting Spirit Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 67	Once Sauron had the Ring, I don't think he would have felt Saruman to be threat to him, despite knowing of his ambitions to be a Ring-bearer himself. We are told, after all, that Frodo would be kept alive and punished by viewing in anguish Sauron holding the Ring. He might also have found Saruman useful (since the Nazgul had their limitations), and perhaps enjoyed having another subverted Maia at his beck and call. The Mouth of Sauron's comments later on followed Saruman's failure and fall, and may not have been the original plan.