What did Gandalf look for in archives of Minas Tirith?

[JeyEn]

In Unfinished tales, it is said that

Little is known of Gandalf's history until the end of the Watchful Peace (2460) and the formation of the White Council (2463), and his special interest in Gondor seems only to have been shown after Bilbo's finding of the Ring (2941) and Sauron's open return to Mordor (2951). His attention was then (as was Saruman's) concentrated on the Ring of Isildur; but in his reading in the archives of Minas Tirith he may be assumed to have learned much about the palantíri of Gondor, though with less immediate appreciation of their possible significance than that shown by Saruman, whose mind was in contrast to Gandalf's always more attracted by artefacts and instruments of power than by persons

A footnote to this says:

Note the passage in The Two Towers IV 5 where Faramir (who was born in 2983) recollected seeing Gandalf in Minas Tirith when he was a child, and again two or three times later; and said that it was interest in records that brought him. The last time would have been in 3017, when Gandalf found the scroll of Isildur. [Author's note.]

So in my previous discussion, I was wondering about Gandalf's knowledge about the One. This quotes above suggests Gandalf went to archives of Minas Tirith after Bilbo found the Ring. Therefore, it probably means Gandalf suspected Bilbo found the One and went to archives to look for some proofs?

Or did he just want to find some stuff about Rings of Power, which he didn't know much about back then? But why - he could have gone to Rivendell for something (ask Elrond?) But why - Rings of Power and The One were discussed in the White Council many times.

But my main question is - what did he look for then? It was long before:

1. Bilbo's birthday party and his weird behaviour.
2. Gandalf remembered Saruman's words about the fiery words on the One.
3. Gandalf started to suspect that Bilbo found the One.
4. Gandalf even had a need to look for some stuff about Bilbo's ring.

Something in this doesn't make sense to me, I am missing something. What do you guys think?

[Huinesoron]

(Linking back to the previous thread for reference once they get separated.)

If we assume that everything Tolkien wrote is 100% correct unless explicitly replaced (which... we shouldn't, but I always do ), then it is clear that Gandalf was looking for information on the Ring. LotR is nearly explicit that he did not believe Bilbo's Ring was the One until immediately before that final visit in 3017, so why was he studying the Ring?

I wonder if the reason is almost too obvious: because Sauron had openly returned and the Nazgul were at large again. The idea of Sauron getting the One Ring back must have haunted the nightmares of the Wise, and Elrond had already (per the Silmarillion) told Gandalf of his foresight that the Ring would return. That meant Saruman's airy reassurances that it was lost in the Sea could be ignored, and so... where was it?! The only place that might have records on the subject was Gondor.

The biggest concern was probably that the Ring had been found. If I were Gandalf, I would want to check Gondor's archives to see if there were any rumours of possible Ringlords in the Third Age, particularly the first millennium or so before Sauron re-emerged and the Istari arrived. An Orcish or Mannish chieftain could have found and used it, established a brief dominion and then lost it through the undying malevolence of Sauron. (The thought that someone would claim the Ring and use it only to catch small goblins to eat probably seemed impossible.)

I also wonder if he was hoping to find some way to destroy the Ring, if and when it emerged. Elrond said it was impossible - but the Numenoreans, by many accounts, surpassed even the Noldor of old in skill, save it be Feanor himself. They successfully invaded Valinor, and even after Numenor fell they went about building walls and towers stronger than Gondolin ever was. If anyone had figured out how to destroy the One Ring, it would be the Numenoreans. A fool's hope, perhaps, but one that was worth looking into.

hS

[JeyEn]

Interesting thoughts, Huinesoron! I am not sure if I like the theory about Gandalf investigating any possible Ringlords in Third Age.

What is most possible is that when Bilbo found his Ring and Sauron returned to Mordor, Gandalf started to get worried there might be a connection, or possibility that Ring will reappear as his owner is back again. Maybe he wanted to find some scripts about the Ring, maybe he was trying to research something about Last Alliance. I just don't think Gandalf thought Bilbo has The One until long expected party -- Saruman voice just made that thought impossible. I find it weird tho that Gandalf didn't find Isildur's scroll much earlier.

[Mithadan]

Just speculating, but Gandalf had other reasons to visit Gondor and review its archives other than seeking information about the Ring. Gandalf knew that Sauron had arisen and occupied Dol Guldor well before Bilbo found the Ring. Was he interested in the Ring? Certainly. But he had been assured that the Ring would not be found by Saruman. Nonetheless, Sauron was back, and a war seemed inevitable even without the Ring. Certainly, Gandalf would want to assess Gondor, the first line of defense, and acquire any information that might be helpful in dealing with Denethor. This may have included history and legends. In addition, Aragorn (II) was born in TA 2931 and Gandalf would have been interested in the dealings between the Stewards and Isildur's heirs over time.

There were a number of reasons for Gandalf to visit Gondor after Sauron arose, and any combination of them would be a good reason for his research. Add to this Gandalf's likely growing suspicion of Saruman. He may have wanted to double-check what Saruman had represented.

[JeyEn]

I am not sure I am convinced, Mithadan. In the quote from UT, there is said Gandalf’s interest was Isildur’s Ring. So my question is - why that soon? Because Sauron’s open return to Mordor? Because he was scared the Ring would appear again? Because he was afraid there might be a link to Bilbo’s ring? What do you guys think? In Shadow of Past, Gandalf said his doubts slept, while here we see he was in archives quite a few times. Also, he wanted to capture Gollum much earlier. So that would mean he was more concerned about the Ring than he says to Frodo. What do think?

[Mithadan]

As I said, I was speculating. Certainly, Gandalf was interested in researching the Ring. But at the same time, Sauron had arisen, and Gandalf was destined to become his "chief foe." The Ring had not yet been found, and Saruman had suggested that it would not be found. Gandalf was tasked with opposing Sauron under any circumstances, one of which was the possibility that the Ring might reappear. Logically, he would cast a wide net in his perusal of Gondorian lore.