maps of beleriand - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Perethil · 10-05-2003, 09:47 AM

none of my maps of beleriand show utumno or angband... they all just end at anfauglith. did tolkien leave morgoth's strongholds out on purpose?
if so, why?

tom bombariffic · 10-05-2003, 10:38 AM

well in "Characters from Tolkien" by David Day, a map is included of the whole of the entire world, including Beleriand, Utumno and Angband. HOWEVER as This Conversation will tell you, his map is totally inaccurate, and you dont want to listen to anything he says.

Your best bet is probably the Atlas of MIddle Earth (I think thats what its called - a big, red book) which is universally regarded as the definitive Tolkien map book. I dont have it so I can't tell you if Utumno and Angband are in it, but if they aren't in this book, they won't be anywhere (except David Day's "books".) - It is a seriously thorough book, and ONLY goes by what Tolkien has said.

Aiwendil · 10-05-2003, 11:22 AM

Actually, the accuracy of some of the maps in The Atlas of Middle-earth has also been questioned. I think that in general they are good, though there are scattered errors or inconsistencies.

The closest thing we have to an authoritative map of Beleriand by Tolkien himself is the map found in HoMe XI, The War of the Jewels. Like all the HoMe material, there are parts of it that must be considered outdated - but this is chiefly in regard to the names on the map. The actual geography can be considered almost completely canonical.

***Sharkû*** · 10-05-2003, 01:35 PM

Christopher Tolkien explains this feature of the Silmarillion map in HoME XI:
"The geography of the far North is discussed in V.270-2; but since it is impossible to say how my father came to conceive it I discreetly omitted all indication of the Iron Mountains and Thangorodrim from the map drawn for the published Silmarilion."

Ailios · 10-05-2003, 01:40 PM

In the HOME XI Beleriand map Angband (or at least Thangorodrim) is shown. However, it is not present on the map in the published Silmarillion. The reason was that CT noticed that according to the text it should be further north than the map suggested.
As for Utumno it was located much further to the North East. Remember that the Iron Mountains where raised in a great semi-circle to protect it, so it was probably located in the center of that semi-circle. Angband was in the western part of the Iron Mountains.

10-05-2003, 09:47 AM	#1
Perethil Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Istanbul, Turkey Posts: 21	maps of beleriand none of my maps of beleriand show utumno or angband... they all just end at anfauglith. did tolkien leave morgoth's strongholds out on purpose? if so, why?

10-05-2003, 10:38 AM	#2
tom bombariffic Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In the house of Tom Bombariffic Posts: 196	well in "Characters from Tolkien" by David Day, a map is included of the whole of the entire world, including Beleriand, Utumno and Angband. HOWEVER as This Conversation will tell you, his map is totally inaccurate, and you dont want to listen to anything he says. Your best bet is probably the Atlas of MIddle Earth (I think thats what its called - a big, red book) which is universally regarded as the definitive Tolkien map book. I dont have it so I can't tell you if Utumno and Angband are in it, but if they aren't in this book, they won't be anywhere (except David Day's "books".) - It is a seriously thorough book, and ONLY goes by what Tolkien has said. __________________ The 'hum' generated by an electric car is not in fact the noise of the engine, but that of the driver's self-righteousness oscillating at a high frequency.

10-05-2003, 01:40 PM	#5
Ailios Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Forochel Posts: 28	In the HOME XI Beleriand map Angband (or at least Thangorodrim) is shown. However, it is not present on the map in the published Silmarillion. The reason was that CT noticed that according to the text it should be further north than the map suggested. As for Utumno it was located much further to the North East. Remember that the Iron Mountains where raised in a great semi-circle to protect it, so it was probably located in the center of that semi-circle. Angband was in the western part of the Iron Mountains. __________________ Ailios

10-05-2003, 11:22 AM	#3
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	Actually, the accuracy of some of the maps in The Atlas of Middle-earth has also been questioned. I think that in general they are good, though there are scattered errors or inconsistencies. The closest thing we have to an authoritative map of Beleriand by Tolkien himself is the map found in HoMe XI, The War of the Jewels. Like all the HoMe material, there are parts of it that must be considered outdated - but this is chiefly in regard to the names on the map. The actual geography can be considered almost completely canonical.

10-05-2003, 01:35 PM	#4
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	Christopher Tolkien explains this feature of the Silmarillion map in HoME XI: "The geography of the far North is discussed in V.270-2; but since it is impossible to say how my father came to conceive it I discreetly omitted all indication of the Iron Mountains and Thangorodrim from the map drawn for the published Silmarilion."