The Lord Of the Rings: How it should have ended

[Elfchick7]

So, I found this video on youtube and I was curious to see what the downers think of it. http://youtube.com/watch?v=JnUvw1rzziE Obviously it would have been a ridiculously fast movie and completely different from the books, but would this really even have worked? (I mean, if all it took was annoying Sauron to distract him, would it have worked?)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

It's a funny video.

Sauron was not careless because he was annoyed, though. He was never seen standing at his front-door fuming at those Gondorian neighbours of his, shaking his fist and promising that they would 'get theirs', just because of some childish mockery. His thoughts were entirely about where his ring was; he thought Gondor had it, so that's how our heroes distracted him.

[Sauron the White]

It is cute - thank you to Elfchick7 for providing it for us.
Question: why was the eagle blindfolded?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Fears over volcano ash getting in his eyes?

[zxcvbn]

I came upon this video a couple of years ago. It's funny, but highly unlikely.

1.There's no way the Eagles could fly over Mordor without getting shot down or intercepted by Nazgul(especially since Mordor's army isn't concentrated at the Black Gate here)

2.There's no way Aragorn, Boromir, Legolas and Gimli could go anywhere near Mordor's borders in plain sight without getting killed.

3.Near Mount Doom, the One Ring's powers were at their max, and just like in the book it would have coaxed Frodo into claiming it for himself instead of dropping it.

[Sardy]

Well, the idea of using the Eagles to deliver the ring is a debate that's been argued ad nauseum in the literature forums... But to play devil's advocate, in the context of the films/parody cartoon...

Originally Posted by zxcvbn

1.There's no way the Eagles could fly over Mordor without getting shot down or intercepted by Nazgul(especially since Mordor's army isn't concentrated at the Black Gate here)

2.There's no way Aragorn, Boromir, Legolas and Gimli could go anywhere near Mordor's borders in plain sight without getting killed.

3.Near Mount Doom, the One Ring's powers were at their max, and justlike in the book it would have coaxed Frodo into claiming it for himself instead of dropping it.

1. That's far from certain. The Eagles were quite deft at flight and battle. But perhaps more importantly, I don't believe that there would be any Nazgul to encounter. Assuming that the Fellowship (and Eagles) set out immediately from the Council of Elrond, the Nazgul had just recently been dissipated in their failure at the Ford of Bruinen attempting to capture Frodo---at this point in the story they would be in no condition (or proximity) to stop the Eagles from reaching Mount Doom.

2. Why not? And, despite the cartoon's silliness, who says that Aragorn, Boromir, Legolas and Gimli even needed to go? The job might well have been accomplished by gandalf, Frodo and an Eagle or two. In fact, perhaps Elrond or Glorfindel might've been better suited for the job than Frodo...

3. Maybe so, but also the Ring wouldn't have had the amount of time to work on Frodo, and he's quite resilient. But assuming you are right, then, in the case of the cartoon, tragic as it might be, the Eagle would just have to drop Frodo.

[MaultheStoor]

Where did Gollum come from? What, was he just passing by and happened to see a giant eagle over head? It is a funny vidio, though.

[yavanna_kementari]

i think it would have taken the romance out of the story... but it would have worked just as well... hahaha...

but lotr would not have been the classic it is now had that been the case :P

[SteamChip]

Cripes!!! murdered by a copyright claim

It 's no longer posted

[Knight of Gondor]

The video is still posted at their original website, http://howitshouldhaveended.com

I think the idea itself is an ancient one, in terms of the time LotR has been around; "Couldn't they just fly on an eagle and dispose of it that way." Which has no doubt been wracked by the rigors of Barrow-Downs debate in threads past.

The whole point of HISHE is usually either to point out weak flaws in the story or script. Obviously, the story would not have been NEARLY so memorable if it was so easy as to drop the ring - kerplunk! - in Orodruin. However, I think there are certain factors which may have facilitated this method...if things had come together differently.

Aragorn was able to distract Sauron by use of the Palantir. Since this was obtained from Saruman, he may not have had that available. But there is still a chance that, by mustering an army, they could have marched to Mordor under the same theory that the arrogance of doing so (with the un-depleted forces of Rohan and Gondor, mind you) would make Sauron think they had the Ring. (Was not Gandalf also able to strive with Sauron to distract him while Frodo was atop Amon Hen?)

These things don't account for Saruman and various other factors. There are all kinds of different ways that things could have happened. Fun to think about, but none would have painted the portraits of wisdom and courage and heroism that the series actually did. Nor would various side benefits have happened. Hobbits would have remained simple and unlearned to the outside world. Gandalf would not have become Gandalf the White. A balrog would still have lurked in the shadows of Khadzad-Dum. King Theoden would still have sat idle in his hall. Eowyn and Faramir would not have been joined...which was a partial result of Eowyn performing high and noble deeds, and yet not finding the satisfaction she sought. The dead under the mountain would not have found their peace. And so on and so forth.

[Mugwump]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Fears over volcano ash getting in his eyes?

I think blindfolding the eagles was done to counter the argument that they couldn't have used eagles because the eagles would have refused to go near the volcano if they saw it.

Originally Posted by zxcvbn

There's no way the Eagles could fly over Mordor without getting shot down or intercepted by Nazgul

Not a problem, since this would have been right after the hobbits arrived at Rivendell and the Nazgul, having just been destroyed at the ford, would have not yet had time to regenerate new bodies.

Originally Posted by zxcvbn

There's no way Aragorn, Boromir, Legolas and Gimli could go anywhere near Mordor's borders in plain sight without getting killed.

They wouldn't have had to go, just Gandolf and Frodo. And they would have been flying from Osgiliath, if not from Rivendell or Lothlorien.

Originally Posted by zxcvbn

Near Mount Doom, the One Ring's powers were at their max, and just like in the book it would have coaxed Frodo into claiming it for himself instead of dropping it.

No, at that point the Ring hadn't yet taken so great a hold on Frodo. In fact, even weeks later Frodo was able to put it on the table in Rivendell. So Frodo would have been able to drop it.

The problem was, Gandolf and Elrond made the strategic error of waiting until representatives from all the Free Peoples could gather before deciding what to do. Political Correctness strikes again!

[Rhugga II]

I always thought the perfect LotR movie would show "Later Events Concerning the Members of the Fellowship of the Ring" while credits rolled. Sort of a montage showing Samwise becoming Mayor, Merry Master, and Pippin Thain, and all of their many children, etc; Samwise goes to the Grey Havens when Rosie dies; Merry and Pippin leave and go to Eomer and his death and then to Gondor and theirs; the death of Elessar; Legolas and Gimli leave Middle Earth and fade.

[Mugwump]

Originally Posted by Rhugga II

I always thought the perfect LotR movie would show "Later Events Concerning the Members of the Fellowship of the Ring" while credits rolled. ...

But that would violate the cardinal rule of modern filmmaking: never do anything to hinder the making of a possible sequel.

[PrinceOfTheHalflings]

I think one of the false assumptions many people make is somehow assuming that flight by Eagle would be more or less instantaneous. It's a bird, not a jet aircraft! It has to stop, eat, rest. So does Frodo - so he's going to need to carry supplies (adding weight).

In reality the Eagles could only fly so fast and for so long - carrying a passenger would slow them down even more. It would still take a considerable period of time for an Eagle to carry Frodo all the way from Rivendell to Mordor, and then the flight across Mordor would take some hours at the very least. All the time the Eagle is vulnerable to attack. It's all very well saying that the Nazgul are out of action at the time of the Council of Elrond, but our heroes don't know that, and realistically by the time an Eagle (carrying Frodo) makes it all the way to Mordor the Nazgul could be up and running again.

There's also the problem of Frodo being able to destroy the Ring. It's all very well to say that Frodo had no trouble setting the Ring down on a table at the Council of Elrond - but that's not the same as destroying it, is it? Frodo couldn't even throw the Ring into the fire at Bag End!

The power of the Ring increases as it get closer to its point of origin. Nobody could destroy it in the Cracks of Doom - Isildur couldn't, and he had Elrond and Cirdan standing beside him urging him to destroy it!

The point of the story is that nobody could destroy the Ring of their own free will - it took an act of Providence, related to Frodo's mercy, to allow the Ring to be destroyed - no amount of shenanigans with Eagles makes any difference. I mean, even Peter Jackson understood that part of the story! Why do some people have difficulty with this?

[narfforc]

I have seen this a number of times over the years and it is funny......however, if you read Letters (June 58), a film script had been sent to Tolkien for his approval. His comments follow....'Here we meet the first intrusion of the Eagles. I think they are a major mistake of Zimmermans, and without warrant. The Eagles are a dangerous 'machine'. I have used them sparingly, and that is the absolute limit of their credibility or usefulness. The alighting of a Great Eagle of the Misty Mountains in the Shire is absurd........' He later in the letter states, '......the Eagles are again introduced. I feel this to be wholly unacceptable tampering with the tale.' Nine Walkers' and they immediately go up in the air'. So we may well have seen that ending a long time ago.

[Elfchick7]

Originally Posted by theknight

thanks thanks thanks elfchick..... reallly cute and sweeeet video u shared, din't watch it before

Lol, no worries! It's what I do.

I, of course, agree with those of you who do not think that this "alternate ending" is plausible. It is rather amusing though, isn't it?

It also begs the question, do you think that there was any other way the Fellowship could have effectively undertaken the destruction of the ring? Do you think the mission would've been more/less successful with another ring bearer?

[Galadriel]

I found it funny, but also kind of insulting to Tolkien. Here's what I thought:

1. The key to the quest was secrecy. Eagles would have been shot down within a day.

2. Why would servants of Manwë carry the One Ring?

3. Quoting Gwaihir: "I was sent to bear tidings, not burdens." Speaks for itself.

4. A hobbit won't ride an Eagle (since they hate heights), a Dwarf will either hate the ride or be too easily tempted by the Ring (at least, I assume they will because of their love for things made by hand), Elves will not touch it, Gandalf will not touch it, Aragorn will not touch it...

All in all, it's a nearly impossible situation.

[sassyfriend]

I think its cute and funny

[Lotrelf]

Ridiculous! I first thought it had something to do with the Grey Havens scene. This Eagle thingy I never really understood. Perhaps, for a while you can assume it to be true, but the story would be full of countless plot holes, I feel.
Another alternating Ending: Why not use a Robotic Machine to take the Ring to Mordor, and Gandalf and the Wise controlling it through a remote? Sounds ridiculous, right? Eagles' help is ridiculous too.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Lotrelf

Ridiculous! I first thought it had something to do with the Grey Havens scene. This Eagle thingy I never really understood. Perhaps, for a while you can assume it to be true, but the story would be full of countless plot holes, I feel.
Another alternating Ending: Why not use a Robotic Machine to take the Ring to Mordor, and Gandalf and the Wise controlling it through a remote? Sounds ridiculous, right? Eagles' help is ridiculous too.

The Eagle thing is a legitimate proposition, and was originally proposed (I believe) by genuine people asking genuine questions. If the Eagles could help Gandalf at Orthanc and Moria, if they could even come to Mordor later on - was it really so hard for them to carry Frodo to Mount Doom right away? Not much trouble for them, evidently, but a lot less for the Ringbearer. It's a legitimate question, and bottomline answer is that you need a story in between. But it shows up so much that it became a sort of running joke in the LOTR community. There's a reason a Robotic Machine didn't really make it there.

[Lotrelf]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

The Eagle thing is a legitimate proposition, and was originally proposed (I believe) by genuine people asking genuine questions. If the Eagles could help Gandalf at Orthanc and Moria, if they could even come to Mordor later on - was it really so hard for them to carry Frodo to Mount Doom right away? Not much trouble for them, evidently, but a lot less for the Ringbearer. It's a legitimate question, and bottomline answer is that you need a story in between. But it shows up so much that it became a sort of running joke in the LOTR community. There's a reason a Robotic Machine didn't really make it there.

Didn't I say the story would be full of plot holes then? Eagles are powerful; are they free of temptation? Boromir was tempted, and so would be other powerful people too. Eagles would be spotted in the air soon. Frodo and Sam had to HIDE from the eye, how could Eagles get past with that? How would they(others) distract The Eye and for how long is it possible? Souron would use his full power and energy in capturing Eagles and thus Ring. May be I'm wrong. Is it possible?

[I_Nauro_Agarithil]

Originally Posted by Elfchick7

So, I found this video on youtube and I was curious to see what the downers think of it. http://youtube.com/watch?v=JnUvw1rzziE Obviously it would have been a ridiculously fast movie and completely different from the books, but would this really even have worked? (I mean, if all it took was annoying Sauron to distract him, would it have worked?)

Mae Govannen,

I am new to this forum because I heard of a theory about this eagle matter before. The theory was that Gandalf was planning to take the fellowship (or at least Frodo & Sam) to the northern region of the misty mountains where the eagles live all along. It was said that when he was taken captive by Saruman and liberated by Gwaihir (if I'm not mistaken) he came up with this plan. While leaving Isengard safe and sound Gandalf did not directly fly to Rivendell. Instead he might have flown to the habitat of the great eagles in the Misty Mountains.

Here he came to an agreement with the eagles that they would carry him, Frodo and Sam to mordor (the other members of the fellowship weren't in the picture yet at this point). Later when Gandalf arrived in Rivendell and the plan was forged to form a fellowship. They left for the pass of Caradras, also known as the Redhorn Pass, to further evolve his secret plan. At this point of the journey he never told anyone (except the eagles ofcourse) about this plan.

When they found the pass of Caradras impossible to venture through, they decided to go through the mines of Moria. Not Gandalf's first choice but the other options were either far too dangerous or impractical because they either had to travel too far north to the eagles or risked to be discovered by wandering enemies which might have brought the secresy of his plan in danger.

Of course we all know what happened in Moria. They were ambushed by the goblins who had taken over the mines completely, not to forget the Balrog of Morgoth, which made the venture through the mines difficult. At that moment when the Balrog fell down he dragged Gandalf over the edge. Barely able to hold on Gandalf noticed that his plan had to be told without the nearby goblins to learn about the plan. So in an attempt to give away the plan to the fellowship he said the line: "Fly, you fools!", unfortunately the fellowship wasn't able to decrypt his message and therefor the plan died with Gandalf.

Now I hear you thinking "Why didn't Gandalf the White tell about this plan?" Well after his ressurection he forgot a great deal about his past life, think about it he couldn't even remember his own name from his past life up until they called him like that in Fangorn Forest let alone remember that he forged a secret plan. So this plan was after that never told about in the story anymore.

So that wraps it up, I do not know if this is truly the plan all along or if it's a fan-fiction. However it would explain a lot of questions I had on the movie, I wanted to share this information and this seemed like the perfect place to start. I would like to hear your opinions about this matter and whether or not you think this is what might have occured or not.

Thanks for your attention and my appologies for me posting a whole story but I felt like I had to.

Namarië!

[Morthoron]

It is complete fan-fiction.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

It is complete fan-fiction.

They were just following PJ's example.

[Lotrelf]

There has been an explaination why Eagles couldn't fly to MD, I think, and I'll find the link. May be someone knows this.

[Zigûr]

I think that "theory" (it's naught but people having a bit of fun, not a serious suggestion or something Professor Tolkien ever wrote) has been banging around the web for a while now.

Evidently if he'd had more time he would have said "Fly, you fools! Rush the ring to Mount Doom on an eagle you have no way of contacting so that you can be easily discovered by Sauron!"

I know it's just a joke but I still think it's spawned by people's poor appreciation and understanding of the book as well as of archaic uses of language.

[I_Nauro_Agarithil]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

I think that "theory" (it's naught but people having a bit of fun, not a serious suggestion or something Professor Tolkien ever wrote) has been banging around the web for a while now.

Evidently if he'd had more time he would have said "Fly, you fools! Rush the ring to Mount Doom on an eagle you have no way of contacting so that you can be easily discovered by Sauron!"

I know it's just a joke but I still think it's spawned by people's poor appreciation and understanding of the book as well as of archaic uses of language.

In my opinion it's not a poor appreciation nor a poor understanding of neither the story nor the use of "old-fashioned" language, but just someone's fantasy sky-rocketing if you will. As I said yesterday I just read it online and I wanted to be sure if it's really true or not, merely because I like taking such things into consideration.

I guess you may be right about the first part, that it were just (for example) a bunch of friends coming up with some theory just for a good laugh on friday evening or something. I guess I'm relieved to hear this theory wasn't Tolkien's own idea on the story. Ah well at least it gave me something to think about for the time being.

[Mithalwen]

The great eagles are servants of Manwë, not a private jet service! Also, to corrupt a phrase, you cannot just fly into Mordor. Gwaihir and co only went in after Mordor was pretty much emptied by the battles at the Pelennor, Anorien and the Gates. Presumably they were no more invulnerable to arrows than the fell beasts

[Leaf]

Frodo would have never been able to throw the ring into the fires of Mt. Doom, no matter how short the journey was. He even couldn't throw it willingly into the fire of his fireplace back in the shire. Without Gollum the quest would have ended right there.