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01-25-2014, 05:11 PM | #1 |
Pile O'Bones
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Why did Sauron fear Aragons coronation?
Correct me if I'm wrong, or if have drawn to much from the movies as I have lost my (digital) copy of the trilogi, and the Silmarillon.
Gandalf says something like (and I'm pretty sure I'm qutoing, incorrectly, the movies here) "Sauron would rather raise Minas Tirith than see a king upon its throne." And Aragorn uses the palantiri to lure Sauron into attacking Minas Tirith before he is ready. But what does Saouron fear? That Aragon has the ring? (as Aragorn is using the same palantiri as Pippin, who Sauron suspects have the ring). Or that Gondor can withstand Mordor if they are but lead by a king? Or that Aragorn will unite Gondor, Rohan and the remains of Arnor? Or that he will unite all the enemies of Mordor, elves, dwarfs, men of dale and so on? |
01-25-2014, 05:46 PM | #2 |
Gruesome Spectre
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I think that's Peter Jackson "I can make boring 'ol Tolkien better"™ revision.
In The Two Towers book Aragorn does say that to have realized that an Heir of Isildur was still living "was a blow to [Sauron's] heart". Sauron naturally would have been shocked to discover that. His attention had been on Minas Tirith for so long that to have such an unexpected revelation threw him into turmoil. He had not forgotten that his previous defeat was at the hands of Isildur, and to have even "his" Palantír, with which he had confused or dominated two of his chief enemies having its link broken to the Orthanc-stone by the Heir filled him with fear. He was mainly worried, I think, that Aragorn would indeed claim the Ring, since in Sauron's mind someone so great could hardly resist it for long. Sauron may have even doubted that he could have recovered it from Aragorn forcibly (though I'm fairly certain he could have).
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01-25-2014, 06:18 PM | #3 | |
Spectre of Decay
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Aragorn's guess is that Sauron fears Isildur's heir and the sword of Elendil as powerful adversaries, knowing that he's reached a critical point in his plans:
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01-25-2014, 06:40 PM | #4 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Well Sauron has a great deal of hatred for Luthien's descedants as a whole. This is further increased by the Numenoreans stopping him in the Second Age. More fuel is added to the fire when the Numenoreans give him a humiliating defeat under Ar-pharazon. Then Elendil makes the last alliance and plays a big part in personally killing his body. Lastly to add insult to the wound Isildur takes his ring. So purely from a personal point he would be angry to find out that a descendant of Isildur still lived.
The other thing that would greatly worry him is the Heir of Isildur claiming the One Ring. Technically Aragorn has a legal right to the ring, which even Frodo acknowledges at the Council of Elrond. Whilst Aragorn has no possible hope of ever defeating Sauron in a personal battle, there is a chance he could unite the armies of the West against Sauron. He may even be able to gain the Black Numenoreans to his side. With such military power, just like the Numenoreans did, Aragorn could defeat Sauron's armies. The last reason is that it is still a huge boost for the men of Gondor and strikes fear into the orcs. As Boromir put it the 'sword of Elendil would be a help beyond hope.' Similarly I think it would be a huge blow to the elves to see Narsil reforged. |
01-25-2014, 07:05 PM | #5 |
Pile O'Bones
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I considered Aragorn himself and the sword of Elendil as great enemies of Sauron, however I felt that that was more dangerous to Sauron himself than to his armies. Of course it would cause fear among his armies but the differnence between Aragorn as king and Aragorn as "simply" the heir of Elendil would be small. However the stoming of Minas Tirith might just as well be to stop Aragorn from taking command of Gondors armies.
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01-25-2014, 07:17 PM | #6 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Yes this would be a classic case of where the film attributes significance to the wrong things for no essential narrative reason, which I think is one of the major pieces of evidence that the screenwriters literally didn't understand the words on the page. Sauron feared Aragorn and the Sword of Elendil mostly because he thought that Aragorn had the Ring - the Heir of Elendil with the Ring might be a formidable opponent militarily.
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01-25-2014, 10:56 PM | #7 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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I think that a big part of Sauron's fear after the Palantir "conversation" was that he wat defeated in a battle of wills/minds by Aragorn. If being the heir of Isildur, a charismatic leader of Numenorian descent, and owner of Anduril and potentially of the Ring is not enough, this little trick does it. I imagine Sauron was seriously freaking out after a "mere mortal" beat him like that in his own field.
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01-26-2014, 08:34 AM | #8 | |
Gruesome Spectre
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One thing I find curious that may bear on this is Aragorn's statement to Frodo on their meeting at Bree.
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01-26-2014, 08:46 AM | #9 | |
Late Istar
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01-26-2014, 09:03 AM | #10 | |
Gruesome Spectre
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01-26-2014, 10:11 AM | #11 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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But before Aragorn used the Palantír do we have any indication that Sauron was concerned about an Heir of Elendil?
That being said it seems to me that Aragorn's activities as Chieftain of the Northern Dúnedain, as Thorongil in Rohan and Gondor and his adventures in Rhûn and Harad must not have gone unnoticed even if Sauron wasn't aware of his lineage.
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01-26-2014, 11:12 AM | #12 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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I think that Aragorn was referring to more general traps, against a Numenorian warrior brave enough to stick himself in Sauron's path. I doubt those traps were even aimed with the same person in mind, or for a greater purpose. They're just traps.
As for Sauron apprehending the heir of Isildur, I don't think he thought him dead as much as lost. I think he wasn't fooled by the destruction of Arnor into thinking that Isildur's line ended, but since the heir did not show a sign for so many generations he probably thought that the lineage was forgotten, or lost, or too mixed. He was still wary of a potential heir, or a Dunedain leader with enough lineage to be proclaimed King, but not as much as he would have been had he known the truth about Aragorn (which he became after he saw him in the Palantir).
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01-26-2014, 11:42 AM | #13 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Many competent generals waged war against Sauron over the millenia; some of them more formidable than Aragorn.
I've always thought that Sauron feared Aragorn's coronation as a sign of great change more than he feared Aragorn storming his gates.
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01-26-2014, 01:24 PM | #14 | ||
Gruesome Spectre
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