Westron translations?

[PaigeStormblood]

Hey everyone I'm interested in translating modern names into Westron "Common tongue" for creating new characters for a lotr fanfic. However though Elven translation is simple Westron is quite sparse.

I look to translate the current names.

-Paige (I.e the main protagonist (A half-elf of Mirkwood)
-Samuel (A Fisherman from Lake Town)
-Hugo (A hired mercenary)
-Violet (A foreign merchant)

Any idea's?

[Mithalwen]

Hi, could you clarify what you want. If you want true westron in the way that Sam Gamgee is really Banazìr Galbasi then it might be a struggle. I don't think there is enough "original" common speech to refer to. Though since Banazìr means halfwise and Hugo means intelligent you could perhaps use Azìr.... However if you accept that Tolkien adapted old English for westron then it should be possible to find the meaning of modern, hebrew, and old French names and give them a similar treatment. I will have a look but while I have always found name meanings qnd traditions fascinating there are folk around whose knowledge of old English is much better so you may get a better offer.

Welcome to the Downs btw.

[PaigeStormblood]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Hi, could you clarify what you want. If you want true westron in the way that Sam Gamgee is really Banazìr Galbasi then it might be a struggle. I don't think there is enough "original" common speech to refer to. Though since Banazìr means halfwise and Hugo means intelligent you could perhaps use Azìr.... However if you accept that Tolkien adapted old English for westron then it should be possible to find the meaning of modern, hebrew, and old French names and give them a similar treatment. I will have a look but while I have always found name meanings qnd traditions fascinating there are folk around whose knowledge of old English is much better so you may get a better offer.

Welcome to the Downs btw.

Ahh I see thank you. Well maybe not true westron, I'm aiming for these modern names to, I guess be de-modernized. Basically I seek for the names to hold the same meanings (i.e Paige I believe means assistant) but are translated as a name that would fit better in the setting of middle earth. I.e I can't see Jake's, Joel's, Kylies etc as fitting names in middle-earth.

[Zigûr]

Could they perhaps be interpolated to some extent from the Adûnaic where an existing Westron word could not be found?
These pages might be helpful, they have a decent collection of known words in various vocabularies:
http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/westron.htm
http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/adunaic.htm

[Mithalwen]

That makes it easier..ok.well I will try to find a few options later today.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by PaigeStormblood

Ahh I see thank you. Well maybe not true westron, I'm aiming for these modern names to, I guess be de-modernized. Basically I seek for the names to hold the same meanings (i.e Paige I believe means assistant) but are translated as a name that would fit better in the setting of middle earth. I.e I can't see Jake's, Joel's, Kylies etc as fitting names in middle-earth.

You really need to consider where each character is meant to hail from. Though many of the names in "Lord of the Rings" are supposed to be translations or substitutions, they follow definite patterns, e.g. dwarves use Old Norse names, Rohirrim Old English, etc. I think you might find it easier to start afresh with names chosen on that basis, as the ones you've got are peculiarly hard to do anything with. (I tried.)

Anyway, you may find this site helpful.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

Could they perhaps be interpolated to some extent from the Adûnaic where an existing Westron word could not be found?
These pages might be helpful, they have a decent collection of known words in various vocabularies:
http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/westron.htm
http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/adunaic.htm

I gather the OP isn't looking for actual Westron, just names that won't sound out of place.

[Mithalwen]

I haven't had as much time as I hoped for this today since I ended up having to try out my first aid... anyway so far....
Samuel means God has heard or God's name.. so Godhyrede though present tense seems a bit more name like Godhyreth. Theree are a couple of oe god names, Godric, Godwin which have variants where god has morphed into os..osric oswin so you could have Osnam for the God's name meaning.

Paige has its origin in page boy, the first stage in training to be a knight. I am playing with a few possibilities linked to the latin meanin but the oe equivalent of the role is thegan or thegn..the origin of Thain and Merry was Theodens sword thane.

Hugo..still, working on but getting somewhere..Violet, oddly since there is an elvish name, helin, is the hard one wvwn though I have found a plant index. I am looking at rendering the english traditional name hearts ease maybe. However since some names got adapted by sound rather than meaning you may want to tinker a bit ...or look at the hobbit genealogies and see if there is anything similar. I think there is definitely a hugo. Remember that the Baranduin became Brandywine. AnywayI am sor4y not to have more promising results but I suppose if it had been easy you wouldn't be asking!

[PaigeStormblood]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I haven't had as much time as I hoped for this today since I ended up having to try out my first aid... anyway so far....
Samuel means God has heard or God's name.. so Godhyrede though present tense seems a bit more name like Godhyreth. Theree are a couple of oe god names, Godric, Godwin which have variants where god has morphed into os..osric oswin so you could have Osnam for the God's name meaning.

Paige has its origin in page boy, the first stage in training to be a knight. I am playing with a few possibilities linked to the latin meanin but the oe equivalent of the role is thegan or thegn..the origin of Thain and Merry was Theodens sword thane.

Hugo..still, working on but getting somewhere..Violet, oddly since there is an elvish name, helin, is the hard one wvwn though I have found a plant index. I am looking at rendering the english traditional name hearts ease maybe. However since some names got adapted by sound rather than meaning you may want to tinker a bit ...or look at the hobbit genealogies and see if there is anything similar. I think there is definitely a hugo. Remember that the Baranduin became Brandywine. AnywayI am sor4y not to have more promising results but I suppose if it had been easy you wouldn't be asking!

Oh wow, thank you for your help Mithalwen, you didn't have to go through all the trouble. I'm very thankful . Now the only issue is Paige for since she's female Thegan/gn sounds fairly masculine. Is their any good way to feminize it abit?

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by PaigeStormblood

Oh wow, thank you for your help Mithalwen, you didn't have to go through all the trouble. I'm very thankful . Now the only issue is Paige for since she's female Thegan/gn sounds fairly masculine. Is their any good way to feminize it abit?

I will see what I can find! And you don't have to be too thankful...I am nowhere near nice enough to volunteer if it weren't the sort of puzzle that interests me anyway.

I quite agree about thegan sounding masculine. I nearly typed it but then remembered offending a friend who was shortlisting baby names by saying the Welsh girls names she was considering Megan and Tiegan sounded a bit hard unless you had a soft welsh accent...fortunately she had boys so it was moot...but I try to tread carefully now...

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by PaigeStormblood

Hey everyone I'm interested in translating modern names into Westron "Common tongue" for creating new characters for a lotr fanfic. However though Elven translation is simple Westron is quite sparse.

I look to translate the current names.

-Paige (I.e the main protagonist (A half-elf of Mirkwood)
-Samuel (A Fisherman from Lake Town)
-Hugo (A hired mercenary)
-Violet (A foreign merchant)

Any idea's?

For Samuel, I'd go more for something like Godred/Osred ('God-counsel').

As for Paige, I looked in the Sindarin wordlist (Direct link to Word Document), and it's a bit difficult. For now, the best I could find would be Gwaedhwen, which could mean something like 'bond[of loyalty]-maiden'. Some other interesting parts I found are 'buia-' ('serve, hold allegiance to', though I think it just sounds ugly as part of a name) and 'hîr'/'heron'/'brannon' ('master') and 'maethor' ('warrior').

For the other two, more information is needed about where they actually come from for even an attempt at a name.

[PaigeStormblood]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

For Samuel, I'd go more for something like Godred/Osred ('God-counsel').

As for Paige, I looked in the Sindarin wordlist (Direct link to Word Document), and it's a bit difficult. For now, the best I could find would be Gwaedhwen, which could mean something like 'bond[of loyalty]-maiden'. Some other interesting parts I found are 'buia-' ('serve, hold allegiance to', though I think it just sounds ugly as part of a name) and 'hîr'/'heron'/'brannon' ('master') and 'maethor' ('warrior').

For the other two, more information is needed about where they actually come from for even an attempt at a name.

.

Well Hugo is a mercenary of Gondorian descent. He roams far and wide in search of new jobs and opportunities to make gold.
Violet's origins are off the end of the map, in a land that is heavily themed around the Spanish culture.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by PaigeStormblood

.

Well Hugo is a mercenary of Gondorian descent. He roams far and wide in search of new jobs and opportunities to make gold.
Violet's origins are off the end of the map, in a land that is heavily themed around the Spanish culture.

Well, if Hugo's Gondorian, then I think Sindarin names are the most appropriate again, and a direct translation would be Fae, as far as I'm aware. That seems a bit weird though, and in context, Faenor would probably be better, but since that refers to such a major character already, I think that would almost probably be a sign of disrespect. So I'd keep Fae- as the beginning, but find something else to end it with. The best words I could find that seem relatively in keeping with the tone are thalion (dauntless/steadfast/strong man), maethor (warrior), callon (hero), bellas (bodily strength) or braig (wild/fierce).

I did look at Adûnaic, but I don't know how relevant that would be unless he's a Black Númenorean or connected to them in some way. The direct translation would be Manô, and so personally I'd for Manônabâr, with abâr meaning strength/endurance.

As for Violet, if you're creating a new place, I think you have relatively free reign to do what you want with the name.