I must get Sauron's PR person

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I was thinking: Sauron inspired more fear on the Third Age people than Morgoth during the First Age. Why? I've got a few theories:

1) Morgoth's enemies (the Eldar of the West, the Sindar, and the Edain) were more powerful than Sauron's enemies (the Dunedain, other Edain, assorted Eldar, a few Maiar, Dwarves, and Hobbits)

2) Morgoth's enemies knew his true history (an escaped thrall and all) while Sauron clouds himself with "divinity", and only a few knew of his true identity. (Think: If you've never read the Silmarillion, you would have thought that Sauron is most powerful enemy of the World, except for an obscure and defeated Morgoth)

Wala lang!
->the son of Finrod

[Sharkû]

While the statement as such that Sauron during the 3rd age was feared more than Morgoth during the 1st is true to at least some degree (cf. MT where it said that Sauron at one point was mightier than the late M. at any rate), I would be careful, and differentiate between the people in whom the respective Dark Lords inspired fear.

M., while being generally greater and more powerful, and therefore indubitably more fearsome, had as his main adversaries the Valar, with little fear at all, and the Elves, who, as you said, knew him quite well. One might suppose that they 'respected' him more (in military terms) than they feared him. However, M. had indeed left a deep and lasting imprint on Men (cf. Athrabeth), because of which they feared him greatly, arguably more than they feared Sauron in the later ages. Men, however, were Sauron's main adversaries just then, especially in the 3rd Age.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I don't remember the exact quote, but Frodo said something about "Only Elves can escape now, if the Sea is wide enough to protect them." Either Frodo doesn't know how powerful those who live Valinor are(unlikely) or Sauron must have inspired so much fear that people are convinved he could assail Valinor.

Whatd'ya think?
->the Son of Finrod

[Legolas]

Sauron and his purpose was far more known than Morgoth's. Morgoth's fortresses were far in the north while Sauron's homes of Dol Guldur and Barad-dur weren't very concealed. The men and many of the elves were still new to the world and did not know of such evil...Sauron's foes in the Third Age were of less stature and were readily aware of his (army's) terrible strength. Morgoth and Sauron also had different purposes. Though Morgoth desired domination, the chief conflict was over the posession of the Silmarils; Sauron was fighting to destroy immediately and take over the world. Morgoth was defending some of the time while Sauron was taking the offense.

[ October 04, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ]

[the phantom]

but Frodo said something about "Only Elves can escape now, if the Sea is wide enough to protect them."

I remember reading that quote not too long ago but I never got around to thinking about it very much.

I can't remember, when does Frodo say that? Is it after he crosses into Mordor? If so, then it's possible that his thoughts are so clouded with the darkness of the ring that he can't see any hope for anyone escaping the shadow. That could explain his comment.

[Maéglin]

Yeh definitely Sauron generated more fear than Morgoth did but only in the 3rd age. Sauron is more crafty and sly than his master is because in the First Age Morgoth's strength was sufficient to see him prevail over the princes of the Noldor. This remained true in the second age because in it, he still had to contend with the kingdom of Lindon, Lothlorien, as well as the remnants of Numenor, after the fall (which was great).

However in the 3rd Age Sauron subdued his enemy with fear, not without reason because by that time the Dunedain of the North were waning (I mean come on! Halbarad could only summon 20 to the Pelennor Fields!) the Elves were departing from Middle Earth and the Dwarves had dwindled over the years because of war and the plain fact that most of them werent getting any, to put it crudely :P

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

I agree with Sharku's statement,

I would be careful, and differentiate between the people in which the respective Dark Lords inspired fear.

though not entirely with the way it was explained. They had different adversaries.

Morgoth did not have the same dominion that Sauron did. While Morgoth's strength was probably greater, in terms of the power of his forces, he was matched in a war against the people of Beleriand; and these people were led by the Noldor, who had sworn to utterly defy Morgoth. They hated him rather than feared him, and of course, in a full-scale war, you tend to get behind your own war effort and similarly defy the foe - fight against it - rather than fear their power. Anyway, as I say, the Noldor hated Morgoth to the ends of the Earth. That was their main feeling towards him, not fear. The Noldorin allies were much the same, mostly.

This was probably the main feeling in Gondor and Rohan in the Third Age, too. They kept together and stood. But throughout the Second Age, most of Middle-Earth fell under Sauron's dominion and thus he was feared, the supreme power that governed the world then, by the poor fugitives who hid from him if they could - and feared by those who could not hide. Other Men were the same. But hatred, of a foe that you know and have known for a long time, overrules fear as the predominant feeling.

Think of wartime Britain, for an example of this. The Germans, the enemy, an enemy that was in fact a big threat as was Mordor to Gondor, weren't feared so much as despised and defied. Had they actually been in occupation, they would have been held in actual fear a lot more.

[ October 05, 2003: Message edited by: Gwaihir the Windlord ]