The Istari Quest - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Belegorn Calenmir · 11-21-2011, 01:02 PM

The Istari, Maiar spirits in human form sent to the Western Lands of Middle-earth to aid Men and Elves in the struggle against Sauron, were given their quest. However, only Gandalf fully fulfilled his quest. The others failed in their task.

Inziladun · 11-21-2011, 01:34 PM

Welcome, Belegorn.

I wouldn't say that the Istari, with the exception of Gandalf, "failed in their task".
The purpose for which they were sent was indeed accomplished in the end, and I think all probably played some part in that success.

However, obviously all but Gandalf (and possibly the Blue Wizards, who went to the East and never returned) could be said to have to a greater degree, like Saruman, or a lesser, like Radagast, gotten distracted in varying ways, and lost their focus. The Blue Wizards are too little-known for the level of their success or failure to be gauged.

blantyr · 11-21-2011, 01:40 PM

Gandalf arguably disregarded the directive not to directly interfere or confront the enemy directly. It was necessary, perhaps. Clearly he was forgiven, as he was sent back after his fight with the Balrog.

I'd like to think that Radagast and the blue wizards contributed, even if they didn't put into it as much as they might have, and even if they weren't there or weren't asked to take part in the ceremony of crowning the new king.

Welcome aboard!

Galadriel55 · 11-21-2011, 09:44 PM

Welcome indeed, Belegorn!

Just a question to you - were you asking a question, or did you just want to hear a discussion on the topic of the istari and their, if it is, failure?

Either way, my answer is that it depends on what you consider to be "failure", how high (or low) to you set the bar of "passing" (one Maia didn't pass for sure..... haha). You could say that even Gandalf failed, because he was not able to continue living physically in Arda, but he was given a second chance. And you could say that Saruman didn't completely fail, since his deeds too brought about the destruction of the Ring, even though he betrayed everyone later on. And these two Wizards are the "extremes" (as was said, Radagast simply was passive, and we don't know a great deal about the Blue Wizards).

Morthoron · 11-22-2011, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belegorn Calenmir

The Istari, Maiar spirits in human form sent to the Western Lands of Middle-earth to aid Men and Elves in the struggle against Sauron, were given their quest. However, only Gandalf fully fulfilled his quest. The others failed in their task.

As I am unsure whether this is a question, something you copied off of WiKi in lieu of an actual comment, or a statement of truth reiterated by Tolkien himself, I will reply that the only solution is 42.

Findegil · 11-22-2011, 10:31 AM

From 'Unfinished Tales of Númenor and Middle-Earth'; part Four; chapter II: 'The Istari':

Quote:

Indeed, of all the Istari, one only remained faithful, and he was the last-comer. For Radagast, the fourth, became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures. Thus he got his name (which is in the tongue of Númenor of old, and signifies, it is said, "tender of beasts"). And Curunír 'Lân, Saruman the White, fell from his high errand, and becoming proud and impatient and enamoured of power sought to have his own will by force, and to oust Sauron; but he was ensnared by that dark spirit, mightier than he.

This does not mention the Ithryn Luin directly, but it is indirectly a statment that they failed.

Respectfuly
Findegil

Belegorn Calenmir · 11-23-2011, 01:59 AM

This Thread was created mostly to see the discussion that would ensue. I read this from the Unfinished Tales, but this phrasing was my own words. I did not even have a copy of it in front of me--- so I was not plagiarizing.

Inziladun · 12-02-2011, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belegorn Calenmir

This Thread was created mostly to see the discussion that would ensue. I read this from the Unfinished Tales, but this phrasing was my own words. I did not even have a copy of it in front of me--- so I was not plagiarizing.

No drama. It just wasn't all that clear to everyone what you were asking.

11-21-2011, 01:02 PM	#1
Belegorn Calenmir Newly Deceased Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Lorien, with Celeborn and the remaining Galadrim after the Departure of Galadriel. Posts: 6	The Istari Quest The Istari, Maiar spirits in human form sent to the Western Lands of Middle-earth to aid Men and Elves in the struggle against Sauron, were given their quest. However, only Gandalf fully fulfilled his quest. The others failed in their task.

11-21-2011, 01:34 PM	#2
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,037	Welcome, Belegorn. I wouldn't say that the Istari, with the exception of Gandalf, "failed in their task". The purpose for which they were sent was indeed accomplished in the end, and I think all probably played some part in that success. However, obviously all but Gandalf (and possibly the Blue Wizards, who went to the East and never returned) could be said to have to a greater degree, like Saruman, or a lesser, like Radagast, gotten distracted in varying ways, and lost their focus. The Blue Wizards are too little-known for the level of their success or failure to be gauged. __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

11-21-2011, 09:44 PM	#4
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,401	Welcome indeed, Belegorn! Just a question to you - were you asking a question, or did you just want to hear a discussion on the topic of the istari and their, if it is, failure? Either way, my answer is that it depends on what you consider to be "failure", how high (or low) to you set the bar of "passing" (one Maia didn't pass for sure..... haha). You could say that even Gandalf failed, because he was not able to continue living physically in Arda, but he was given a second chance. And you could say that Saruman didn't completely fail, since his deeds too brought about the destruction of the Ring, even though he betrayed everyone later on. And these two Wizards are the "extremes" (as was said, Radagast simply was passive, and we don't know a great deal about the Blue Wizards). __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

11-21-2011, 01:40 PM	#3
blantyr Wight Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Settling down in Bree for the winter. Posts: 208	Gandalf arguably disregarded the directive not to directly interfere or confront the enemy directly. It was necessary, perhaps. Clearly he was forgiven, as he was sent back after his fight with the Balrog. I'd like to think that Radagast and the blue wizards contributed, even if they didn't put into it as much as they might have, and even if they weren't there or weren't asked to take part in the ceremony of crowning the new king. Welcome aboard!

11-23-2011, 01:59 AM	#7
Belegorn Calenmir Newly Deceased Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Lorien, with Celeborn and the remaining Galadrim after the Departure of Galadriel. Posts: 6	This Thread was created mostly to see the discussion that would ensue. I read this from the Unfinished Tales, but this phrasing was my own words. I did not even have a copy of it in front of me--- so I was not plagiarizing.