WW LXXXVII - The Valley Forge

[Bom Tombadillo]

I'm torn between keeping phantom around to admire his brilliance (before killing him for being an eeevil li'l schemer) and just plain killing him to, as G55 says, save us some headaches.

Also, phantom's fixation on killing the KD this early seems like a Forger trying to get an obstacle out of the way during the day, when the Watchdwarf can't protect him.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

I'm torn between keeping phantom around to admire his brilliance (before killing him for being an eeevil li'l schemer) and just plain killing him to, as G55 says, save us some headaches.

Also, phantom's fixation on killing the KD this early seems like a Forger trying to get an obstacle out of the way during the day, when the Watchdwarf can't protect him.

In both cases it sounds like you plan on dispatching him eventually, so why would you make yourself wait and go through the headaches?

[Bom Tombadillo]

Because he's amusing, of course.

Oh dear. I seem to have become part-sally.

[Pitchwife]

Sorry everybody, had no internet all day till now. Catching up.

[Galadriel55]

1.5 hour left. And there's nothing new.

Who do I want to lynch? Not wilwa. Not Glirdy (obviously). I don't have a solid opinion on most people. Nerwen is sensible and reasonable, like always. She doesn't give me evil vibes. Phantom is... well... phantom.

I'm torn between voting some submarine or tp. The problem is, almost anybody except for tp is kinda sub-ish. Including me. And it's soooooooooo tempting to lynch phantom. At least just to show him that it can be done... But, on the other hand, I'd hate to lose "the second most deadliest person in the village" (or whatever it was that Bom called him) if he's innocent. But I'd dance on my head if he'll be a fenris.

Edit: 1 hour 13 minutes now.

[Galadriel55]

This looks like it's going to be very last-minute...

[Bom Tombadillo]

Wait, is DL really that early? I thought it was an hour later than that (4:00 my time).

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Edit: 1 hour 13 minutes now.

2 more hours til DL (5 pm EST - 9 PM Downsian time (which I think is GMT)).

It was extended an hour, at I believe sally's request.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

Wait, is DL really that early? I thought it was an hour later than that (4:00 my time).

*headdesk* You're right! It's still 2 hours to DL. I thought it was just one. I got that 4:00 EST into my head, but it's 5:00 EST.

I'm sorry.

Edit: xed with Boro

[Inziladun]

++G55 for trying to cause a panic.

[Boromir88]

Add G55 to the list of ones I have no interest in voting for today.

In my head, Eruhen is wrestling Pitch for the Mr. Agreeable title. So they're on my vote list along with phantom and Bom.

Hopefully Inzil, sally, and Finduilas show up some more later, as they are appearing on neither list.

[Pitchwife]

I can empathize with people being exasperated with tp, but even if I'm not 100 % sold on his plan, I have an idea why he's doing what he's doing, and I'm for now inclined to think his reasons are innocent; so I won't be voting him toDay. (As to his vote for me, I take that as a placeholder; we have retractables, remember?)

Why I'm not sold on his plan yet: OK, the hints the KD can give to the NWD will be sketchy, but if nothing else, he can get himself (and thus indirectly the Sweetheart) protected at least twice, forcing the Forgers to pick another victim, and thus slightly increasing the chance that they hit the Sweetheart directly, giving him a revenge kill. In this case, he'll die as well, but we'll be spared wasting a lynch on him and can concentrate on lynching the Forgers. Also, there's these secrets about the KD and Sweetheart that Foley's been talking about and which could be for our benefit (as wilwa and G55 have pointed out).

tp's plan, on the other hand, has the charm of being straight and simple and avoiding the chances of multiple/revenge kills backfiring. Still, I'd prefer to lynch a Forger toDay if we can and give the Sweetheart at least one Night to find the KD.

Oh and Mith, not that Jon Snow. This one.
(Btw, ever wondered why the trilogy format is so popular in fantasy? Yes, Tolkien, I know, but there's four winds, four seasons, Four Branches of the Mabinogi...)

[Inziladun]

This could be interesting.

Originally Posted by McCaber

Well, should we each give a list of three people we randomly suspect?

In which case I'll go with Rikae, Glirdy, and Pitchwife.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Anyway, I shall vote for Pitch, Eruhen, or Gal55.

*flips coin*

Heads, so... Crap, this coin isn't three sided. So umm....

You must be lynched-

++Pitch

So tp happened to vote for someone suspected (for no reason) by Cabbie. What to make of that?

x/d with Pitch

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I can empathize with people being exasperated with tp, but even if I'm not 100 % sold on his plan, I have an idea why he's doing what he's doing, and I'm for now inclined to think his reasons are innocent; so I won't be voting him toDay. (As to his vote for me, I take that as a placeholder; we have retractables, remember?)

Possibly, but they have to be highlighted anyway, so the vote is void and phantom can be such a stickler for reading rules, he's making a few errors so far.

I've realized I'm missing the Premier League game I had wanted to watch, and while it should end before the DL, I don't want to deal with a frantic mess of mass cross-voting at the end.

Add sally to the vote list, because that's the easiest way for me to figure out her guilt or innocence, and so is doing this.

++sally

I may be back yet.

[Bom Tombadillo]

I suspect you know exactly what to make of it, and don't want to state it too openly. Why? Who knows? But I shall be watching you as well as phantom.

EDIT: X'd with Boro.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

I suspect you know exactly what to make of it, and don't want to state it too openly. Why? Who knows? But I shall be watching you as well as phantom.

I may have an idea, but do I know? I do not. I don't see how anyone but phantom could "know" what he's up to.

[Galadriel55]

Interesting find, Zil. But it could just be a coincidence. Like, if tp makes my head hurt and your head hurt, and we both vote him for that reason - does that make us wolves?

[Eruhen]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I may have an idea, but do I know? I do not. I don't see how anyone but phantom could "know" what he's up to.

Sometimes, I don't think even he knows...

In all seriousness, though, I'm really starting to think phantom's plan isn't all that and a bag of crisps, mainly because of something Wilwa managed to put into words but had been percolating inside my skull:

So by the sounds of it the Forge can't win until the KD is dead (am I understanding this correctly?), and if there is only 1 Forge member left they cannot kill the KD at Night. So by lynching the KD during the day, would we not be helping the Forge? I mean they don't want to kill him at Night, that could draw attention to themselves, so they would want us to kill him for them.

Plus, there's the definite downside of getting the KD before he has a chance to hint to anyone who he thinks the Forgers might be going after.

Alsø alsø wik, the longer the KD has to give hints to the NWD, the better idea the NWD has of who's in the Forge and who isn't. The Forgers obviously aren't going to attack their own, so whatever names the KD gives to the NWD are known innocents. So, between the two of them, the KD and NWD work as a pseudo-Seer. Benefit to keeping both of them around as long as possible.

Edit: x-ed with G55

[Inziladun]

The fact that the votes are retractable does add a wrinkle to how we could perceive them thus far.

In that spirit:

++phantom

I've never voted for him on Day 1, and there's a first time for everything. Also, I don't really have much on anyone else at the moment. I could change this if something else catches my eye in the meantime.

[Galadriel55]

Sally didn't say much. No opinion.
Inzil said more, but no impression on him registered in my head. For now, he makes some sense to me, so I'll save my suspicions for other people.
Nerwen made some good points, but she always does that.
Boro ... same as Zil, pretty much
Galadriel is a known innocent... Wait, that's me? Can't I give an opinion about myself?
Eruhen is against tp's plan. So are many others. No opinon.
Bom made some really odd statements, but... doesn't he always...
Glirdan is innocent until D2. After that, he might not be.
Finduilas "played the newbie", but it doesn't mean anything role-wise.
Rikae really liked tp's plan. That's all she said all Day. So: no impression.
McCaber=?
Wilwa is not someone I would vote for. She gives me innocent vibes.
Pitchwife looks innocent so far. I don't get tp's vote for him. They just disagreed, and then tp votes for Pitch.
the Phantom is too busy demonstrating his brilliance to look for wolves. Seriously, our goal is to get wolves, not the KD! Although the latter might give us clues to the former's identities, our ultimate goal is to lynch wolves!
Mithalwen said nothing evil, but somehow her posts make me wary (although one made me happy :-))


So what do I have? A couple people that look innocentish, and the rest as questionmarks.

Seeing as votes are retrackable,

++TP

Wolf or not, life is just so much easier without all that scheming.

Edit: xed with Zil. Seems that tp is more (un)popular than he thinks! :P

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Oh and Mith, not that Jon Snow. This one.
(Btw, ever wondered why the trilogy format is so popular in fantasy? Yes, Tolkien, I know, but there's four winds, four seasons, Four Branches of the Mabinogi...)

LOTR aint a trilogy it is a classic triple decker..... but some random bloke with a woluf means nothing to me... oh Vienna... Anyway I don't like Phantom's idea on so many levels. Apart from feeling that it isn't sporting as when Somerset declared in a limited overs game in order to win the overall title (sorry I know it is only Nerwen for whom cricket is a culturally appropriate reference and she prolly wasn't born at the time) I really think Foley doesn't deserve people playing silly beggars with her game. She may have more generosity of spirit than I with regard to player taking the law into her own hands but she has already had to defer and alter deadlines and the like and it just isn't fair. I have to admit I am only playing because I regarded myself as committed before I became definitively disenchanted with werewolf but since I am playing I will play and not seek some quick get out on a technicality. Anyway now to find someone to vote for.

[Galadriel55]

O wow! Look at that!

Originally Posted by Galadriel55, before two ++TP votes came along the way

Interesting find, Zil. But it could just be a coincidence. Like, if tp makes my head hurt and your head hurt, and we both vote him for that reason - does that make us wolves?

So are we packmates, Zil?

[Bom Tombadillo]

Tee hee. I suppose I'll be waiting until the last minute to vote . . . well, maybe not.

++TP

[Galadriel55]

Half an hour left, people. Really.

And our votes?

TP-->Pitch (will it be counted?)
Boro-->Sally
Zil-->tp
G55-->tp (2)
Bom-->tp (3)

Edit: xed with Bom

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

I suspect you know exactly what to make of it, and don't want to state it too openly. Why? Who knows? But I shall be watching you as well as phantom.

EDIT: X'd with Boro.

This sounds like the same might actually go for you. Take care not to paint tp too black, or you might get some soot on your own nose. If you haven't already, that is.

Other thing I find interesting is how G55 seems all fine and dandy with tp's plan but grasps for every argument that can be used against it. Very nicely done. You'll do very well at the smithy. (Yeah, I know I've been rather wishy-washy about it myself. So lynch me.)

Eruhen has just made a very good point which has moved him(?) from Iron to Mithril on my personal colour scale. As for the rest:

White-hot
None, at this point

Mithril
sally
wilwa
tp
McCaber

Iron
Boro
Zil
Finduilas
Mith

Cloudy Glass (i.e. nothing to see)
Glirdan

Slate
Nerwen

Box-Shadow Darkblue !Important
Rikae

And to get things rolling,
++Bom

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

Tee hee. I suppose I'll be waiting until the last minute to vote . . . well, maybe not.

I thought you wanted to keep him alive?

TP is sure becoming popular as a place-holder vote. Well, he's the only one that really talked toDay... For now, I don't have a good opinion on anyone else...

Edit: xed with Pitchie

[Mithalwen]

Don't like phantom's plan but don't like facile bandwaggon's either

This is pure hunch based on various things ..the invitation to reveal, the jump on the bandwaggon... just giving the impression of fangs and fur

++BomTombadillo

Don't like TP's plan but at moment feel it is him being clever clever rather than evil. Inclined ot keep him atm and may well do what is necessary.

Far to keen for early doors - don't pander to him.

[Bom Tombadillo]

Well, we'll see how this turns out. I do believe we'll find a good chunk of the truth this lynch.

[Galadriel55]

Vote count

TP-->Pitch (will it be counted?)
Boro-->Sally
Zil-->tp
G55-->tp (2)
Bom-->tp (3)
Pitch-->Bom
Mith-->Bom (2)

[Finduilas]

Sorry for "playing the newbie" folks. I really have had more to say, I'm just keep writing it and not posting it until it is obsolete. That being said, I have 8 minutes till deadline, and guests in the living room... meaning, I don't have time to write another posts in argument.

++ Inziladun

Edit: thanks muchly Boro.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Eruhen has just made a very good point which has moved him(?) from Iron to Mithril on my personal colour scale. As for the rest:

Agreed about Eruhen's point.

Edit: crossed with Finduilas. Highlight your vote...[ HIGHLIGHT] [ /HIGHLIGHT] (without the spaces)

[Eruhen]

Well, I'm willing to keep phantom around for another Day, even if just to see what new schemes he comes up with toMorrow. I still think he's playing a game of Silly Beggars instead of WW, but we'll see what happens.

But, going on pure instinct here...

++Bom

[Pitchwife]

Boro, Zil, would either of you be inclined to retract? Preferably both?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Boro, Zil, would either of you be inclined to retract? Preferably both?

Why? I understand about Boro, but why Zil? Because he voted tp? I just don't get it.

Finduilas, you need to highlight your vote.

Edit: like this: [ highlight] ... [ /highlight] but without spaces

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Boro, Zil, would either of you be inclined to retract? Preferably both?

Yes, actually. Nothing more I dislike than a Day 1 throw away vote. It would mean I'd have to wait a day to see sally's reaction, but I'd have to wait regardless.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Finduilas

Sorry for "playing the newbie" folks. I really have had more to say, I'm just keep writing it and not posting it until it is obsolete. That being said, I have 8 minutes till deadline, and guests in the living room... meaning, I don't have time to write another posts in argument.

++ Inziladun

Oh, for goodness sakes, how do you highlight text? Whatever. Foley can count my vote or not, as she wishes.

[ highlight ]text[ /highlight ] without the spaces.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Boro, Zil, would either of you be inclined to retract? Preferably both?

I might. Why do you ask?

x/d with G55 and Boro

[Bom Tombadillo]

Ah, last minute chaos. Much more fun online than in real life.

EDIT: X'd with Inziladun. Yeah, this is going to hurt.

[Pitchwife]

Because I wouldn't like to see tp lynched toDay? Is that good enough?

[Inziladun]

Ok. It's interesting to see who pounced on tp after my vote. I'll feel like Bill the Pony if tp turns out to be a baddie, but:

--phantom

++Bom

Because G55 looks less suspicious.

[wilwarin538]

sorry, I'll explain absence on admin:

++Bom

, vote for him uz I don't want tp gone yet, his suggestion wasn't necessarily evil.