Pleased to meet you, Frodo... Reppuli?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I believe Cotton as a name does come from "cottage". This is what Tolkien has to say about his "translation" of the hobbits' names (from "The Lord of the Rings, Appendix F):

Thanks. I thought so.

And the Australian translation... I mean, are you serious? That sounds terribly funny From dingo - well, I would understand that, but then "Bushman" or "Nuggetberry" (I believe it has something to do with golden nuggets, Aganzir, which is the form in which gold used to be found) and... "Jackeroos of Brumbyland" cannot be really serious, now is it? You made it up, confess!

[Aganzir]

Oh, of course. I should've known that. Thanks, Legate.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Thanks. I thought so.

And the Australian translation... I mean, are you serious? That sounds terribly funny From dingo - well, I would understand that, but then "Bushman" or "Nuggetberry" (I believe it has something to do with golden nuggets, Aganzir, which is the form in which gold used to be found) and... "Jackeroos of Brumbyland" cannot be really serious, now is it? You made it up, confess!

Yes, of course I did!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Yes, of course I did!

But good job, indeed

[Nerwen]

Thankyou!

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, Tolkien's premise was that he was using Anglo Saxon (Old English) names to "translate" the Rohirric ones, so it shouldn't be that surprising.

Well, I didn't know that back then, so it was surprising to me.

But still, I think it's interesting to see how these Old English names can pass as Modern German names so seamlessly.

[Nerwen]

For that matter, the German-translated names you listed, Macalaure, didn't sound "alien" to me in the way that the Finnish or Czech ones did (me being a native English speaker).

I agree with you that Kankra is just wrong. The translator must have been trying to copy the way Tolkien came up with Shelob, which is simply "she" + "lob" (dialect word for a spider).

[Macalaure]

Generally, I think the idea to create a German name for Shelob by following the way Tolkien originally invented that name is a good one. It's a part of making the whole universe of Middle-earth feel familiar to a speaker of a foreign language.

However, there simply had to be a way for them to come up with something better than "Kankra".

[Nerwen]

I know. "Shelob" sounds scary. "Kankra"... nothing much. Could be a disease.

In this case I think the translator may as well have kept "Shelob". The name doesn't mean anything in Standard English anyway.

By the way–

If anyone is curious about the words "bunyip" and "yowie" (from the celebrated Australian translation), they refer to legendary monsters.

A yowie is a large shaggy humanoid (like a yeti). A bunyip is a water monster that lurks in lakes, swamps and, of course, billabongs, preying on unwary swimmers. Nobody knows what they look like, since nobody has ever seen one and lived to tell the tale.

On the other hand, everyone in Australia knows someone whose friend's uncle saw a yowie one night.

[Macalaure]

It's not whether a name means something or not, I think, but how it feels and how it fits into the sound of the language surrounding it. Having Shelob in the German translation would not have felt right (not to mention that it sounds ridiculous when pronounced German ).

I've read "The Bunyip in the Billabong" for the umpteenth time now, but it still makes me chuckle.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

It's not whether a name means something or not, I think, but how it feels and how it fits into the sound of the language surrounding it.

True, but maybe a meaningless sound-name would have been better? Historically, names have very often been adapted to the form of the new language, without worrying about the meaning.

Now, as regards bunyips: don't laugh– many of us half-believe in them.

A friend of mine was camping in a remote part of Tasmania. In the night she heard a horrible snarling outside (actually a Tasmanian devil), and she panicked: "Help! They told me bunyips weren't real!"

Actually, you can laugh.

[Thinlómien]

Okay, I've finally finished my project that took over a year - I've read The Fellowship of the Ring in French!

So, here are some names for you (Mac has mentioned some on this thread, but a little repeating won't kill anyone):

The Lord of the Rings - Le Seigneur des Anneaux
The Fellowship of the Ring - La Communauté de l'Anneau
The Two Towers - Les Deux Tours
The Return of the King - Le Retour du Roi
Middle-Earth - Terre du Milieu

Frodo Baggins - Frodon Sacquet
Sam Gamgi - Sam Gamegie
Merry Brandybuck - Merry Brandebouc
Pippin Took - Pippin Touque

Strider - Grands-Pas

Bree - Bree
Crickhollow - Creux-de-Crique
Hobbiton - Hobbitebourg
Bag-End - Cul-de-Sac
The Shire - la Comté
Weathertop - le Mont Venteux

Bilbo Baggins - Bilbon Sacquet
The Sackville-Bagginses - Les Sacquet de Besace
Fatty Bolger - Gros Bolger
Ted Sandyman - Ted Rouquin
The Gaffer - l'Ancien
Barliman Butterbur - Prosper Poiredebeurré
Bill Ferny - Bill Fougeron

Black Riders - Cavaliers Noirs
Dark Lord - Seigneur Ténébreux
Mount Doom - la Montagne de Destin

Goldberry - Baie d'Or
Old Forest - la Vieille Forêt
Old Man Willow - l'Homme-Saule
Barrow-Downs - Les Hauts des Galgals
Barrow-Wight - un Etre de Galgal

Saruman of Many Colours - Saroumane le Multicolore
Gollum - Gollum

All in all, I'm afraid the translation is quite horrible. Names like "Saroumane le Multicolore" or "les Piliers d'Argonath" or "Hauts des Galgals" (although it's cute too ) totally cracked me up, they don't sound impressive like they should.

Furthermore, the translator has been incredibly lazy and unimaginative. For example, when there's the gift with the letter "G" for both garden and Galadriel, he has just made a footnote that "garden" is garden in English. (In the Finnish translation, the translator changed the letter to V so that it meant both Valtiatar "Lady" and vihreä "green", which was what a good translator should do, if you ask me.) Also, when Legolas cries "Yrch!" and Gimli says "Orcs!" the stupid translator has them saying "Des Yrch!" and "Des Orques!". Okay, we know that in such pharses we need the "des" to indicate partitive in French, but why do you have to add it to the Elvish word?!? It makes absolutely no sense that Legolas would start it as it was Westron ie French and then finish with the actual word of his language... such a silly mistake by someone who's supposed to be a professional. There are other examples like this but they annoy me so much that I won't repeat them here...

Anyway, some (albeit very few) parts sounded good in French, and I need to keep practising my language sklls, so maybe I'll read the two other parts of LotR in French some day... If I do, I'll come here again to share some more names with you.

Meanwhile, comments (and questions) are welcome and definitely new names as well!

[Morthoron]

No wonder why Tolkien disliked French. It's made his epic story sound like a bad knock-off of an Alexandre Dumas novel. En garde, Fougeron!

[skip spence]

I dunno, I have a thing for French I suppose; either it sounds very elegant or very vulgar it seems, sometimes both at the same time.

I especially liked:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Merry Brandybuck - Merry Brandebouc

Bag-End - Cul-de-Sac

Fatty Bolger - Gros Bolger

The Gaffer - l'Ancien

If nothing else, Gros Bolger is a classic!

And Lommy, don't you think I missed your dig at Swedish...

Originally Posted by Kath

Poor Goldberry! That just doesn't sound as pretty in Swedish.

No, it does have a nice ring to it, translated it becomes something like 'Cloudberry-gold'.

Oh, the Aussie translation was great, Nerwen!

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by skip spence

And Lommy, don't you think I missed your dig at Swedish...

Oj, nu är du säkert jättearg - förlåt mig! But what do you think of the Swedish translation, by the way? Because I have heard it's bad and those examples didn't really convince me to think otherwise...

And as for the French, I personally like these two:

Crickhollow - Creux-de-Crique

Sounds funny.

Dark Lord - Seigneur Ténébreux

Sounds like a scary sorceror, doesn't it? It's much less "neutral" than the English one, I'd think...

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Oj, nu är du säkert jättearg - förlåt mig!

Närå, jag kan aldrig bli arg på dig. Ärligt talat är jag inte mycket till patriot heller...

But what do you think of the Swedish translation, by the way? Because I have heard it's bad and those examples didn't really convince me to think otherwise...

I know it has been criticized for a long time and quite recently LotR has also been re-translated to more accurately follow the original, both in language and names (Frodo Bagger is now Frodo Säcker fex.) The old translator, Åke Ohlmarks, did take too many liberties, not only with the names but also at times quite radically altering the text as he saw fit. The thing is, while this in principle is annoying, I must admit that I quite like his translation, even some of his alterations, as they often have a certain charm. This is probably because I first read his version of it though. I haven't read the new translation.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Oh, the Aussie translation was great, Nerwen!

Thanks, mate!

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Dark Lord - Seigneur Ténébreux

Sounds like a scary sorceror, doesn't it? It's much less "neutral" than the English one, I'd think...

Yes, that one's cool.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Bree - Bree

Well, you couldn't very well make it "Brie", could you?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, you couldn't very well make it "Brie", could you?

That one wouldn't cut the mustard, or the cheese more aptly.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Närå, jag kan aldrig bli arg på dig. Ärligt talat är jag inte mycket till patriot heller...

Lommy var egentligen ganska snäll där. Vanligen är hon styggare när hon talar om svenska.

Skippy you should go ahead and post the new translations.

[skip spence]

Lommy var egentligen ganska snäll där. Vanligen är hon styggare när hon talar om svenska.

För tillfället är jag fylld av en nästan mordisk ilska mot allt som har med Sverige att göra (fråga inte!) och kan inte riktigt förmå mig att försvara mitt land och språk. Önskar jag kunde finska, det verkar om inte annat vara ett utmärkt språk att uttrycka svordomar och obsceniteter med.

Skippy you should go ahead and post the new translations.

Like I said, I haven't read the new translation. I tried to google some names of people and places just now but didn't find much. The new names of people and places I found made me cringe though as a rule. I suppose Åke Ohlmarks translation is too ingrained in my mind and I'm too old a dog to change now. In any case, I don't like to read translations of books written in English.

Here are a few changes I found:

Lord Of The Rings = Sagan Om Ringen -> Ringarnas Herre
Hobbiton = Hobsala -> Hobbinge
The Shire = Fylke (unchanged)
The Gaffer = 'Gubbtjuven' -> Gammelfar
Brandywine = Vinfloden -> Brännevinsfloden
Frodo Baggins = Frodo Bagger -> Frodo Secker
Bill Ferny = Bill Ferny -> Bert Färne
Goldberry = Hjortrongull -> Gyllenbär
Sackville-Baggins = Säcksta-Baggerna -> Kofferdi-Secker
Rivendell - Vattnadal -> Riftedal

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Önskar jag kunde finska, det verkar om inte annat vara ett utmärkt språk att uttrycka svordomar och obsceniteter med.

Hahaha!

Hmm, actually I think I like the new translations more, but then on the other hand I'm not used to the old ones (not having even read my Swedish copy yet ). Except for Gyllenbär. That sounds just awful. To think that I used to laugh at Hjortrongull!

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, but The Hobbit was first translated like ages ago. I borrowed a copy from the library once, and it was awfully funny (but it was illustrated by Tove Jansson whom I adore). If I ever feel like reading it again, I promise to post the names here.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

barrow-wight = haudanhaamu

The first thing that came into my head was Haudh-en-Ndengin. Obviously Elvish has some of its roots in Finnish.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Gollum - Klonkku

Haha!

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Middle-Earth - Keski-Maa

I just read that as Pesky and for some reason it made me laugh.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Leaflock - Lehvähapsi
("Lehvä" is an old-fashioned word that means leaf and "hapsi" does not actually translate as lock, rather as a tuft of thin hair.)

I assume you mean it doesn't mean anything to do with a lock as in "lock and key" because in English you do get lock as in "lock of hair"

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Huorn - huorni

Haha! I was reminded of the "Middle-Earth Bumper Stickers" thread.



And on the whole I think that the Finnish translation gives it a very Middle-Earth-ish feel.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

I assume you mean it doesn't mean anything to do with a lock as in "lock and key" because in English you do get lock as in "lock of hair"

Yep, I meant lock as lock of hair.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

And on the whole I think that the Finnish translation gives it a very Middle-Earth-ish feel.

I think so too.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

I just read that as Pesky and for some reason it made me laugh.

When I have read it, I know I thought about Esquimaux...

[Galadriel55]

I love the translations! Nerwen's make me giggle. Even though you mad that up. :-P


Some Russian (I wrote it phonetically. ch is like in cherry):

Baggins = Torbins (torba is an old word for a sac/bag)
Brandybuck = Brendizaik (I don't get the reasoning here, because "zaik" sounds like a rabbit...)
Took = Krol (this one's deffinitely a rabbit...)
Gamgee = Skrombi (probably comes from the word that means shy/humble)
Samwise "Sam" = Semmium "Sem"
Underhill = Nakruchins (Over-hill...)
Hornblower = Gromoboy (thunder-maker/drummer. Well, literally hitter.)
Goldberry = Zolotinka (Gold+suffix that I can't find an equivalent for in English)
Halfling = Nevisoklik (not-high), but in another translation called Poluroslik (half-high)
Ranger = sledopit (one who reads tracks)
Strider = Brodyaj'nik (Wanderer)
Barliman Butterbur = Lavr Narkiss (lavr is laurus, so instead of Gandalf making pun about butter, he talks about soup. )
Celeborn = Selerbern (just cause it sounds better)
Celebrimbor = Selebrimber (same reason)
Treebeard = Dreven' (probably a combination of derevo=tree and drevniy=ancient)
Gollum/Smeagol = Gorlum/Smeagorl (sounds better that way in Russian)
Grima Wormtongue = Grima Gmiloust (Rotten Mouth)


Middle-Earth = Sredizem'ye (hm. Mediterrain. So quite literally ME)
Shire = Hobbitannia
Bag-End = Torba-na-kruche (Bag on a hill)
Brandywine = Brendiduim
Old Forest = Vekovechniy Les (Everlasting forest)
Barrow-downs = Mogilniki (barrows + suffix)
Bree = Prigorye (Next-to-mountain)
Midgewater Marshes = Komariniye Topi (Mosquito swamps/marshes)
Rohan = Mustagrim (from mustang), or Ristaniya (not quite sure about that one)
Minas Tirith/Tower of guard = Minas Tirit/Fortress of Last Hope


The Fellowship = Hraniteli (keepers... for a lack of better word)

LOTR = Vlastelin Kolets (literal)
FOTR = Hraniteli (keepers)
TTT = Dve Tverdini ([the] Two Strongholds)
ROTK = Vozvrash'eniye Gosudarya (also literal)




These are just some, but the list is quite long as it is... :-)


PS: one that deserves extra-special attention is the one and only (... at leas at the time of LOTR)... *drumroll* ... BALROG! :-D It's translated as "Barlog", since it's just easier to say. (hence the reason for me calling him 'Barly' in my first posts on the Do-they-have-wings thread)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hey, nice ones, G55! Interesting to read this (also especially because I can understand most of that, and so get the impression it probably gives to a reader...).

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Goldberry = Zolotinka (Gold+suffix that I can't find an equivalent for in English)

Well, it would be a sort of... diminutive, right? It is very similar (and if you look at the first page, I think I've written it there) to the Czech name, which is Zlatěnka... in fact totally the same word (I wonder if some link in inspiration exists here?).

Rohan = Mustagrim (from mustang), or Ristaniya (not quite sure about that one)

Now this is really interesting - is it, like, really instead of Rohan? Or instead of "Riddermark"? Or something? I wonder what made them to do that, anyway. And the second word is really peculiar. Maybe something made from some obscure parts of the language? Brings once again into my mind this idea the Czech translator had (but in the end she decided not to do it) to translate the Rohirric names into Old Church Slavonic, to give the reader the feeling an English reader has ("the Rohirrim speak the same language as we did a thousand years ago"). Maybe there is some similar idea behind this?

PS: one that deserves extra-special attention is the one and only (... at leas at the time of LOTR)... *drumroll* ... BALROG! :-D It's translated as "Barlog", since it's just easier to say. (hence the reason for me calling him 'Barly' in my first posts on the Do-they-have-wings thread)

Hey, interesting! I can clearly see the point. Curious, but they didn't change Elrond, did they? Because I remember when I was small, I had exactly this sort of problem - or not a problem, simply a presupposition, I thought originally that it is "Erlond", simply because "Elrond" is much more difficult to pronounce. And I know several friends of mine, who know LotR only superficially, DO say "barlog", also probably because of the reason that it comes to them as more "natural"...

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Hey, nice ones, G55! Interesting to read this (also especially because I can understand most of that, and so get the impression it probably gives to a reader...).

I could understand most of your Czech translations too! It's funner when you can take a good guess at what the meaning is.

Well, it would be a sort of... diminutive, right? It is very similar (and if you look at the first page, I think I've written it there) to the Czech name, which is Zlatěnka... in fact totally the same word (I wonder if some link in inspiration exists here?).

I guess it's diminutive... I don't know how it's called in Enlish...

And Goldberry's name in Russian is literally the same as Czech. Weird!

Now this is really interesting - is it, like, really instead of Rohan? Or instead of "Riddermark"? Or something? I wonder what made them to do that, anyway. And the second word is really peculiar. Maybe something made from some obscure parts of the language?

It could come from some root that I don't recognize. One of the reasons that the name had to be changed was because Rohan just sounds too un-Rohanny and un-Tolkienny in Russian (and would probably be more associated with Genghis Khan than anything else) . "Mustangrim" sounds Tolkien enough, and you can associate it with horses, so it makes sense.

Curious, but they didn't change Elrond, did they?

Hm.

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Lommy's original list

Neekerbreeker = skikirikittäjä

That is such an awesome word. Though I don't know at all how to pronounce it properly, to me I can hear the buggy-ness/cicada-like sound. It's kinda creepy.

As for the French sometimes sounding a little less impressive...a friend of mine really got a kick out of watching Star Wars in French and hearing Darth Vader talk about 'Le Cote Obscur'...

[Galadriel55]

PS: about Elrond. If they changed his name to "Erlond", instead of Satrry Sky his name would come to mean "Lonely haven/harbour".

PPS: neekerbreekers = krovoprostsi (asking-for-blood. It refered more to the mosquitoes than the crickets - or whatever they were)

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Volo

Bilbo Torbins iz Torba-Na-Kruchi v Gobitonii = Bilbo Baggins from Bag End in Hobbiton. (I imagine "torba" as a non-too-fancy bag/sack and Torba-Na-Kruchi literaly means "a bag on a hook".

I have to disagree. "Bag on a hook" would be "Torba-na-kryuchke". Krucha - not to be confused with kryuchok (although they probably sound the same to those who don't speak a Russian-resembling language) - means steep hill or precipice. So instead of Bag-End there is Bag-on-the-Hill.

[Galadriel]

I just want to ask...has anyone heard of a Lord of the Rings translation in Hindi? I've seen several Potter books in Hindi, Urdu, even bleeding TAMIL, but not a single Tolkien book in any of those languages!