Oldest Living Thing? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

kharank · 09-28-2003, 01:49 PM

Hi there!!

I've never created a topic before now, so if i'm committing barrow-down suicide and asking a repeating question, please be gentle!!

I have a query about who or what was the oldest living thing in Middle-Earth towards the end of the Third Age. We are told (i think by Gandalf) that the Ent Fangorn/Treebeard is the oldest living thing.

Then again, didn't Tom Bombadil say that he was 'oldest and fatherless?' I assume he qualifies too, as he seems very much alive, although depending on who you think he is, his status as a 'living thing' could be questionable - Maia?

Thats another point I would question. Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron etc are Maia, created before the world was shaped. Surely that makes them older than Treebeard, who can only have come to life once Middle-earth was created?

There are many Elves who must be close to being the oldest (Cirdan - phew!!). Now, correct me if i'm wrong, but dont dwarves believe that Durin will one day rise again? That he is, in essence, just 'asleep'? Since Aule created dwarves before the awakening of Elves and Men, they were technically aware and alive before Elves and Men, so does that not mean that if Durin returns, he will be the oldest living thing?

Anyway, i cant think of any other candidates, and im sure there are answers for all. I dont doubt Treebeard knows what he's taking about!!

***Sharkû*** · 09-28-2003, 03:09 PM

I don't think Durin would qualify. Even though the fathers of the dwarves were created and given the Flame before the first Children awoke, it was Eru's will that the dwarves in turn should not awake before the Children. That is arguably what we should base a being's coming to life on.

As for your other questions, they are debated and/or answered here, and in threads linked to there (cf. my post towards the beginning).

[ September 28, 2003: Message edited by: Sharkû ]

09-28-2003, 01:49 PM	#1
kharank Animated Skeleton Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 31	Oldest Living Thing? Hi there!! I've never created a topic before now, so if i'm committing barrow-down suicide and asking a repeating question, please be gentle!! I have a query about who or what was the oldest living thing in Middle-Earth towards the end of the Third Age. We are told (i think by Gandalf) that the Ent Fangorn/Treebeard is the oldest living thing. Then again, didn't Tom Bombadil say that he was 'oldest and fatherless?' I assume he qualifies too, as he seems very much alive, although depending on who you think he is, his status as a 'living thing' could be questionable - Maia? Thats another point I would question. Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron etc are Maia, created before the world was shaped. Surely that makes them older than Treebeard, who can only have come to life once Middle-earth was created? There are many Elves who must be close to being the oldest (Cirdan - phew!!). Now, correct me if i'm wrong, but dont dwarves believe that Durin will one day rise again? That he is, in essence, just 'asleep'? Since Aule created dwarves before the awakening of Elves and Men, they were technically aware and alive before Elves and Men, so does that not mean that if Durin returns, he will be the oldest living thing? Anyway, i cant think of any other candidates, and im sure there are answers for all. I dont doubt Treebeard knows what he's taking about!! __________________ High Lord Kharank has spoken

09-28-2003, 03:09 PM	#2
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	I don't think Durin would qualify. Even though the fathers of the dwarves were created and given the Flame before the first Children awoke, it was Eru's will that the dwarves in turn should not awake before the Children. That is arguably what we should base a being's coming to life on. As for your other questions, they are debated and/or answered *here*, and in threads linked to there (cf. my post towards the beginning). [ September 28, 2003: Message edited by: Sharkû ]