In Praise of Christopher Tolkien

[davem]

I have to say I've been a bit disappointed by the amount of criticism JRRT's son & literary executor has received on this forum of late. I think its about time to put the other side.

Firstly. let's remember that without CT we may well not have gotten LotR at all. He contributed massively to its coming into being, he drew the maps, & quite possibly was the reason JRRT kept writing the book, to send out, chapter by chapter, to CT who was serving in the RAF during the war.

Since his father's death CT has worked tirelessly to make his father's unpublished writings available to the public. Without his dedication to his father's memory we wouldn't have had The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, the whole of HoM-e or CoH - not to mention Gawain & the Green Knight, Pearl, Sir Orfeo, or the recent Sigurd & Gudrun. He even helped the adaptors of the BBC Lord of the Rings series - probably the definitive adaptation of the book so far.

Of course, CT has made mistakes - he's human after all. Yet if he has gone too far on occasion it has all been motivated by his deep love & respect for his father. There could not have been a more sympathetic, knowledgeable, or dedicated literary executor.

So, a thread dedicated to discussion of CT. Let's talk about his achievements, & acknowledge all we owe him.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by davem

I have to say I've been a bit disappointed by the amount of criticism JRRT's son & literary executor has received on this forum of late. I think its about time to put the other side.

*Raises an eyebrow*

Ummm...has someone put a gun to your head? Is CT standing behind you right now, dictating this post?

Honestly, unless you are in imminent danger, suffering dementia, or merely being sarcastic, I find your "disappointment" at odds with your numerous posts attacking CT and the Family Trust over the last few months. Considering you have lead the bull rush to castigate CT and the Tolkien family, I am skeptical regarding this sudden act of contrition.

[skip spence]

Hehe, I suppose that davem is now being in held in the wine-cellar of CT's French mansion, typing apologetic posts with beady brow and unsteady hands under the unsettling gaze of a huge wild boar with tusks blooded, ever ready to charge and maul at his master's command.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Honestly, unless you are in imminent danger, suffering dementia, or merely being sarcastic, I find your "disappointment" at odds with your numerous posts attacking CT and the Family Trust over the last few months. Considering you have lead the bull rush to castigate CT and the Tolkien family, I am skeptical regarding this sudden act of contrition.

So, in your opinion, it is not possible that a great man may have faults as well as virtues? Or that one must either focus solely on criticising him for his faults or praising him for his virtues?

CT is, for me, both a hero & a villain - he is a bully, intolerant & uncaring of others' work, & deserving of criticism for it. He is also a loyal son, brilliant literary executor, & if he has faults - which he certainly does - they do not cancel out his virtues, because they are motivated by loyalty to his father's memory.

You'll also note two things: 1) that I am the one who started a thread in praise of him & 2) that the other thread criticising his behaviour in the 'Mirkwood' afffair is still going strong...

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by davem

So, in your opinion, it is not possible that a great man may have faults as well as virtues? Or that one must either focus solely on criticising him for his faults or praising him for his virtues?

No, that is not my opinion, I never said such a thing. I am referring to your odd and decidedly self-serving wording here:

Originally Posted by davem

I have to say I've been a bit disappointed by the amount of criticism JRRT's son & literary executor has received on this forum of late. I think its about time to put the other side.

You're disappointed at the forum? Better that you be disappointed in yourself, as you were the prime fomenter and bitterest assailant over a prolonged period. It's rather like Brutus blaming the Romans for murdering Caesar.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

No, that is not my opinion, I never said such a thing. I am referring to your odd and decidedly self-serving wording here:



You're disappointed at the forum? Better that you be disappointed in yourself, as you were the prime fomenter and bitterest assailant over a prolonged period. It's rather like Brutus blaming the Romans for murdering Caesar.

Or for the days when people got irony without the need for some little 'smiley' type icon. Maybe they should add 'wink' icons to any new editions of Gulliver's Travels - what do you think?

But that aside, does anyone want to contribute to a thread on Christopher Tolkien? Or must this become yet another discussion about me?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by davem

Or for the days when people got irony without the need for some little 'smiley' type icon. Maybe they should add 'wink' icons to any new editions of Gulliver's Travels - what do you think?

What do I think? I thought your entire first post was ironic, and I questioned your motivations right from the start. The whole thing smacked of disingenuousness, which is why no one has posted remarks, save to mention the incongruity of your comments.

Originally Posted by davem

Or must this become yet another discussion about me?

No, I won't prolong this thread any further. I have no interest in trying to discern which part of your posts are ironic and which aren't.

[Galadriel55]

Let's just agree that CT tried... even though in many aspects he failed... But he did things as he thought best... He probably didn't mean for half of the to turn out as they were...

[davem]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Let's just agree that CT tried... even though in many aspects he failed... But he did things as he thought best... He probably didn't mean for half of the to turn out as they were...

Absolutely. I can understand his motives, but he seems less & less able to simply get that not everyone outside his chosen circle is an enemy. He seems to suffer from the faults of his virtues - his desire to defend his father & protect his work seems to lead him (& perhaps by extension his son Adam, who is probably now the driving force of the Estate) to go on the defensive constantly - to the point of paranoia.

So sad that the Estate seems to have become increasingly petty minded in such matters. A decent man in so many ways, & he's given us so much. Imagining how little of Middle-earth we'd have without him must give us pause, certainly. I'm awestruck when I think of what he's actually done - none of which he needed to do. And its in the light of that achievement that his/the Estate's behaviour in the matter of Wheelbarrows at Dawn & Mirkwood is so annoying.

But, worthy of praise & respect certainly.

[Thinlómien]

It has always amazed me how Christopher Tolkien has devoted his life to his father's work. Yes, we all know J.R.R. Tolkien's creations are awesome and unique. And yes, JRRT was CT's well-loved father. But it still baffles me - the kind of humility of it - that someone devotes his life to someone else's (rather unfinished) imaginary world. It is kind of admirable.

I also think CT has done well in editing his father's texts (in most cases) and he's been able to admit his own mistakes - I don't remember the details, but in one of the volumes of HoME he kind of corrects something he wrote in the Silmarillion.

It's sad CT has become such a "bad" name to so many Tolkien fans of late. I can definitely see where it's coming from but it's a shame nevertheless given how much of what we have of his father's work is thanks to him. Sometimes it's a shame good people act like jerks in some issues, I guess.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

It's sad CT has become such a "bad" name to so many Tolkien fans of late. I can definitely see where it's coming from but it's a shame nevertheless given how much of what we have of his father's work is thanks to him. Sometimes it's a shame good people act like jerks in some issues, I guess.

Despite what some people think, I really did want to have a thread that balanced the criticism. Problem is, some people think that if you criticise 'x' for doing something then you can't praise him/her for doing something else. CT/The Estate (of which he is the 'figurehead' shall we say) have been heavy-handed recently, but CT himself has also spent many years in making available his father's unpublished work - possibly sacrificing his own academic studies (his translation of King Heidrek's saga has recently been published by Harper Collins, but it was originally published many years back. He has put him self second, probably feeling that making his father's work available is more important than what he would have liked to do himself. You can't help but admire him for that - even as you wish he could just step back, relax, & let others add their work to the effort. So sad that the Estate could not allow the Hilary biography go ahead - & so wrong of CT/the Estate to force some good, well intentioned peoples' work be cast on the scrap heap. And the more I read of the recent novel Mirkwood the more I feel that its just a harmless romp with a few interesting ideas among the silliness.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

My view of CT's work on Middle Earth in general and his father's
legacy in particular is quite favorable, making his rather childish
censoring efforts discussed here and elsewhere all the more
regretable. But you can't deny his great contributions, above all
with the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales. In evaluating him I'm
reminded of the ending in the movie My Favorite Year:
(from AMC Filmsite)

The sad scene in which drunken, swashbuckling movie star Alan Swann (Peter O'Toole), hidden in his limo, watches his estranged daughter Tess (Cady McClain) ride a bicycle in Connecticut - after Swann has driven away, his daughter looks on, knowing he'd been watching; and the sentimental ending after Swann had saved the day on live TV - his last great moment - as young comic writer Benjy Stone (Mark-Linn Baker) narrated about it: ("The way you see him here, like this...this is the way I like to remember him. I think if you had asked Alan Swann what was the single most gratifying moment in his life, he might have said this one, right here. The next day, I drove up to Connecticut with him and Alfi (Tony DiBenedetto). THIS time, he knocked on the door, and when he and Tess saw each other, it was like they'd never been apart. Like Alfi says: 'With Swann, you forgive a lot, you know?' I know.")

[Mister Underhill]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

It has always amazed me how Christopher Tolkien has devoted his life to his father's work. Yes, we all know J.R.R. Tolkien's creations are awesome and unique. And yes, JRRT was CT's well-loved father. But it still baffles me - the kind of humility of it - that someone devotes his life to someone else's (rather unfinished) imaginary world. It is kind of admirable.

Interesting perspective. As a Tolkien fan, I'm certainly grateful to Christopher for bringing so much of his father's unpublished work to the public. On the other hand, I've always thought there was something a little bit sad -- especially now that I am myself a father -- about the fact that he has spent his life sorting, deciphering, and organizing his father's clutter. Very interesting clutter, granted, but still. If Tolkien had been working in the age of computers, sorting through his stuff would have been the work of a couple of years at most, and then what would have Christopher done with himself?

But I guess few of us will ever know or really be able to understand the challenges of living in a shadow as long as the one cast by JRR. Christopher has certainly performed a great service for hardcore Tolkien fandom, and Thin's take about the humility of that service is one I hadn't really considered before.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

Interesting perspective. As a Tolkien fan, I'm certainly grateful to Christopher for bringing so much of his father's unpublished work to the public. On the other hand, I've always thought there was something a little bit sad -- especially now that I am myself a father -- about the fact that he has spent his life sorting, deciphering, and organizing his father's clutter. Very interesting clutter, granted, but still. If Tolkien had been working in the age of computers, sorting through his stuff would have been the work of a couple of years at most, and then what would have Christopher done with himself?

But I guess few of us will ever know or really be able to understand the challenges of living in a shadow as long as the one cast by JRR. Christopher has certainly performed a great service for hardcore Tolkien fandom, and Thin's take about the humility of that service is one I hadn't really considered before.

Thanks you kind of pin-point what I was trying to say. It surely has not been easy for Christopher living in his father's shadow.

[Galadriel55]

Good points, Lommy and Mr.U! Just to add to what you said, Christopher must be a very dedicated son, to spend all his life like that. He must have really loved and respected JRR.