Do all character who love golden-haired women die? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Urwen · 02-20-2011, 09:20 AM

Finwe loved Indis. Died
Turgon loved Elenwe. Died
Maeglin loved Idril. Died
Turin loved three women with golden hair (Lalaith, Finduilas and his wife/sister, Nienor). Died
Celebrimbor too loved Galadriel. Died

This happened too often to be a coincidence. It's fate, I think.

Galadriel55 · 02-20-2011, 09:50 AM

Everyone dies sooner or later, regardless of who they love or don't love.

Golden hair in Tolkien's books is often regarded as more beautiful that dark hair (don't throw Arwen and Luthien in my face for saying that).

You could also say that Tuor loved Idril - and wasn't killed (maybe even didn't die). Faramir loved Eowyn and wasn't killed. Celeborn loved Galadriel, and I don't think he was killed. I believe quite a few of Sam's children had golden hair; hobbits didn't die for admirng it or loving them.

It's not a deadly sin in ME to love golden-haired women.

Urwen · 02-20-2011, 10:05 AM

Depends on who are we speaking of. For Turin and Maeglin it certainly was deadly.

And don't forget Turin and Tuor were cousins. I believe that while Lalaith and Huor were still alive, Tuor visited Dor-Lomin, at least once. And at the pools of Ivrin he witnessed Turin declare his love for Finduilas.

I believe it wasn't Maeglin's treason that made Tuor move in for the kill. It was memory of Turin + sight of Maeglin grabbing Idril + Eol's dying words that made Tuor do it. He thought that if he had to die...

"Better from my hand than from Morgoth's" was what Tuor thought at that moment. I gurantee it.

Galadriel55 · 02-20-2011, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

I believe it wasn't Maeglin's treason that made Tuor move in for the kill. It was memory of Turin + sight of Maeglin grabbing Idril + Eol's dying words that made Tuor do it. He thought that if he had to die...

"Better from my hand than from Morgoth's" was what Tuor thought at that moment. I gurantee it.

That's too much of a stretch, in my opinion. Plus, Tuor never heard Eol's last words. I think Tuor was fighting for the sake of his wife and son. But you're entitled to your own views. *shrugs*

Anyways, if Idril was dark-haired, do you think this would be different?

Urwen · 02-20-2011, 10:17 AM

Tuor didn't, but Idril did. Don't you think she might have told Tuor?

Galadriel55 · 02-20-2011, 10:41 AM

OK, she could have. But it's not that Tuor threw Maeglin off the cliff on purpose, it just happened that way.

But if she was dark-haired, would the story change somehow?

And those who love dark-haired woen also die. You want an example? Beren. Loved Luthien. Want more examples? Over half the Gondorian population. I think Aredhel also had dark hair (being the daughter of Fingolfin), so you can also count Eol.

Faramir Jones · 02-21-2011, 08:56 AM

I don't get you here, Urwen. Do you mean die in a general sense, or die violently?

If you're talking about characters who are Men, they're going to die anyway, that being their fate. Even Elves can die by violence or by grief.

Rumil · 02-21-2011, 03:40 PM

Celeborn and Gimli did OK, as did Faramir

Galadriel55 · 02-21-2011, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumil

Celeborn and Gimli did OK, as did Faramir

As has been said already, everyone dies eventually. Gimli, Celeborn, and Faramir weren't killed, though (as far as I know).

02-20-2011, 09:20 AM	#1
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,387	Do all character who love golden-haired women die? Finwe loved Indis. Died Turgon loved Elenwe. Died Maeglin loved Idril. Died Turin loved three women with golden hair (Lalaith, Finduilas and his wife/sister, Nienor). Died Celebrimbor too loved Galadriel. Died This happened too often to be a coincidence. It's fate, I think. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

02-20-2011, 09:50 AM	#2
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,401	Everyone dies sooner or later, regardless of who they love or don't love. Golden hair in Tolkien's books is often regarded as more beautiful that dark hair (don't throw Arwen and Luthien in my face for saying that). You could also say that Tuor loved Idril - and wasn't killed (maybe even didn't die). Faramir loved Eowyn and wasn't killed. Celeborn loved Galadriel, and I don't think he was killed. I believe quite a few of Sam's children had golden hair; hobbits didn't die for admirng it or loving them. It's not a deadly sin in ME to love golden-haired women. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 02-21-2011 at 06:52 PM.

02-20-2011, 10:05 AM	#3
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,387	Depends on who are we speaking of. For Turin and Maeglin it certainly was deadly. And don't forget Turin and Tuor were cousins. I believe that while Lalaith and Huor were still alive, Tuor visited Dor-Lomin, at least once. And at the pools of Ivrin he witnessed Turin declare his love for Finduilas. I believe it wasn't Maeglin's treason that made Tuor move in for the kill. It was memory of Turin + sight of Maeglin grabbing Idril + Eol's dying words that made Tuor do it. He thought that if he had to die... "Better from my hand than from Morgoth's" was what Tuor thought at that moment. I gurantee it. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

02-20-2011, 10:17 AM	#5
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,387	Tuor didn't, but Idril did. Don't you think she might have told Tuor? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

02-20-2011, 10:41 AM	#6
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,401	OK, she could have. But it's not that Tuor threw Maeglin off the cliff on purpose, it just happened that way. But if she was dark-haired, would the story change somehow? And those who love dark-haired woen also die. You want an example? Beren. Loved Luthien. Want more examples? Over half the Gondorian population. I think Aredhel also had dark hair (being the daughter of Fingolfin), so you can also count Eol. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

02-21-2011, 08:56 AM	#7
Faramir Jones Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lonely Isle Posts: 706	Not sure what you mean here I don't get you here, Urwen. Do you mean die in a general sense, or die violently? If you're talking about characters who are Men, they're going to die anyway, that being their fate. Even Elves can die by violence or by grief.

02-21-2011, 03:40 PM	#8
Rumil Sage & Onions Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Britain Posts: 894	Celeborn and Gimli did OK, as did Faramir __________________ Rumil of Coedhirion