Some questions ..

[The Witch-King of Angmar]

Hi, I've got some questions, probably someone can answer them. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

1. What happens with the spirits of the Maiar or Valar after their, how to say, hull, wrapping or their appearance is destroyed? Where do the go?

2. When did Arwen decide to become mortal?

3. How long do men stay in the Halls of Mandos and if they do so in which book this is mentioned?

4. Did the Valar come to the last war at the end of the First Age against Morgoth themselves?

5. Can the appearance of the Valar or Maiar, when they are guised as men or whatever be destroyed like every other human being?

Thanks a lot. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[lathspell]

1. It is not known what happens when a Maia will 'die' physically. In Middle-earth it seems that, when you were corrupted by heart and therefore unloyal to the Valar (Sauron, Saruman), you were given no new body and a Sea-Wind from the West would take away their spirits. However those that did remain faithful (Gandalf) were given a new body after deciding if he is still loyal to the Valar.

2. I think that for herself she decided it a very long time before the beginning of LotR, when she meets Aragorn in Lothlorien. But Elrond then would given his authorization only if Aragorn held both the Sceptre and the Crown. From LotR - Many Partings - I quote this:

None saw her last meeting with Elrond her father, for they went up into the hills and there spoke long together, and bitter was their parting that should endure beyond the ends of the world.

I've always believed that, during that conversation, she made her final decision and became mortal.

[lathspell]

3. That is not known. It depended on what man came to the Halls of Mandos.

4. The Silmarillion says that Eonwe, the Herald of Manwe, commanded the Host of the West, so I don't think that the Valar came to Middle-earth, but sent their Maiar instead.

5. Yes, this is a quote from the UT:

... and clothe themselves in flesh so as to treat on equality and win the trust of Elves and Men. But this would imperil them, dimming their wisdom and knowledge, and confusing them with fears, cares, and wearinesses coming from the flesh.

I also remember that somewhere it states that, when in 'body', they could be slain and die of hunger and cold.

Hope this helped,
greetings,
lathspell

[The Witch-King of Angmar]

Yeah, thanks a lot! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Great Board. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[lindil]

re: point 5, a former loremaster of this site jallanite penned the following exhaustive article:

http://pub72.ezboard.com/fosanwefrm8...opicID=8.topic

enjoy!

[lindil]

lathspell re: pt 2.

Arwen had already married Aragorn before the parting conversation in Rohan. Do you not think that the marriage vows [ at the latest] sealed her fate with her husbands?

[arelendil]

2 - I thought that Arwen never became mortal until the day Aragon died. In the appendices it says that 'She [Arwen] wouldn't die or age until she had lost all that she had gained', namely Aragorn. But reading the passage here in front of me it says, 'And thus it was that Arwen first beheld him again after their long parting; and as he came walking towards her under the trees of Caras Galadhon laden with flowers of gold, her choice was made and her doom appointed.

It then goes on to say that they walked a year in lothlorien before the time had come for Aragorn to depart again. '...they looked east to the shadow and west to the twilight, and they plighted their troth and were glad.' So it was some time between then if at all that Arwen became mortal in the sense that she would stay with aragron but she wouldn't die like a mortal would nor age, or at least that's what you get from the appendices.