Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
12-19-2008, 11:12 PM | #1 |
Playful Ghoul
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,251
|
Balrogs and Elvish Spirits
Two questions which may be unworthy of advanced discussion:
The first is simple: where did Tolkien talk about "houseless elves"? I've seen the term bandied about in recent research and I know Houseless Elves are bodyless Elves who refuse the call of Mandos, but I don't recall hearing the term before. Did I pass over it the first few times I read the Silmarillion and UT? Very possible. Is is discussed elsewhere? The second question is less straightforward, and forgive me if it's been hashed out previously: Why did the Moria Balrog stay under the mountains for so many thousand years? Even after the Dwarves poked it in the dark, it never (from my understanding) took a stroll in the daylight or moonlight to smell the flowers and feel the summer breeze under it's wings/shadows. Wouldn't a creature filled with such malice towards free people actively hunt out some victims instead of hanging out with the Nameless Things playing hide-and-go-seek? Was the Balrog scared? Of the light, of Gandalf, of Galadriel? Or had it lost the initiative when the Valar deleted its master to Eru's trash bin, there to await the great Permanent Removal?
__________________
"Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green." |
01-14-2009, 08:12 AM | #2 | |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Alqualondë
Posts: 31
|
the second question
Quote:
__________________
the Staff of the Halatir of the West |
|
01-14-2009, 08:45 AM | #3 |
Fading Fëanorion
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: into the flood again
Posts: 2,911
|
Can't answer the first question either, but for the second one:
I think it's a combination of two things. First, he might indeed have been too scared. The last thing he knew from the outside world was how the Valar got rid of Morgoth and all his servants they could catch, including, presumably, all other Balrogs. How could be have known that the situation was less hostile outside afterwards? He could have learned it from the Orcs after they invaded Moria, but there is no indication that there was ever an actual contact between them. The other reason could be that, after the end of Morgoth, he had no master anymore, and no purpose. Sauron must've known about the Balrog after the invasion of Moria, yet the Balrog did not join him (or was never asked to), so Sauron apparently was not sufficient in rank to be a master. Alone, the Balrog indeed seemed to not have any own initiative beyond keeping his doorstep clean from non-evil. |
01-14-2009, 09:08 AM | #4 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,034
|
Quote:
And this appears in section: Later Quenta Silmarillion II, Morgoth's Ring |
|
01-14-2009, 02:27 PM | #5 |
Sage & Onions
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Britain
Posts: 894
|
Wakey wakey
I've wondered if the Balrog had gone into some sort of hibernation in the long years between the end of the First Age and the dwarves' delving.
At first (few years/centuries?) it would have feared discovery by the Maiar, Vanyar et al, but effectively it appears to have slept on until discovered. Perhaps being woken up made it extra-grouchy!
__________________
Rumil of Coedhirion |
01-15-2009, 07:11 AM | #6 |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
|
I often think the Balrog must have found plenty to keep itself busy in the deep and dark places under Moria - maybe tormenting the nameless things that Gandalf says live down there. The Balrog might have been like the Nidhoggr, gnawing at the very foundations of Middle-earth
Or else he/she/it chose to keep out of Sauron's way. It may not have wanted to be used and exploited by him like so many other beings and creatures were used by both Morgoth and Sauron.
__________________
Gordon's alive!
|
01-15-2009, 08:19 AM | #7 |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,509
|
Which is precisely why in 2483 3rd Age was founded the MeSPCB, the Middle-earth Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Balrogs, as a proposed remedy for such exploitation. Unfortunately, all the attendees of the first meeting were incinerated by the guest of honor.
__________________
And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
01-15-2009, 10:42 AM | #8 | |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 65
|
Quote:
I mean, not alot of news of the world outside would reach it, and perhaps it still believed that the army of the valar were outside ready to slay it at first appearance |
|
01-16-2009, 02:29 PM | #9 | |
Flame Imperishable
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Right here
Posts: 3,928
|
Quote:
Hibernation sounds like a good idea. This has also brought a more rudimentary question to my mind: Do Balrogs have wings... er.... I mean...Do Balrogs need to eat? Or for that matter, can they eat? Do they even have mouths?
__________________
Welcome to the Barrow Do-owns Forum / Such a lovely place
|
|
01-16-2009, 02:52 PM | #10 |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,996
|
Wouldn't any fiery creature want to stay deep below the water table? After all, there were floodwaters by the Gate of Moria wherein dwelt the Watcher in the Water.
__________________
I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
01-16-2009, 05:14 PM | #11 | ||
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
|
Quote:
Like Doctor Who is when he returned as the 10th Doctor - he's a bit angry that he's the last one left. As you would be. Quote:
__________________
Gordon's alive!
|
||
01-17-2009, 03:58 PM | #12 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 431
|
The last thread on Balrog I have participated in came to a following conclusion :
Quote:
|
|
10-22-2010, 02:38 PM | #13 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,401
|
I agree with Rumil. I think that the Balrog went into hybernation for the larger part of the 2 epoch. I think that it was waken by Sauron's willpower when Sauron was gaining strength to fight with Gil-Galad and Elendil. I think that he kind of summoned, and if not, then simply "awoke" all the evil that he could possibly get working. Sauron's first step was to become the master of all evil in M-e, so that he would overpower the good aries. However, the Balrog did not obey his will, and my reasoning for that is Balrog is almost as powerful as Sauron - he, as well as all the Balrogs, were once maiar. Sauron was the most powerful maia under Morgoth's rule (according to the Silmarillion), but I guess that Balrog comes very close. So, instead of joining Sauron's army, he just woke up.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
|
|