Celebrian Who? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elwen_starmaiden · 09-03-2003, 11:49 AM

What I think is odd is that I never knew Celebrian's name until I read the Silmarillion, she's just Arwen's mother, or the daughter of Celeborn and Galadriel, Elrond's wife. I just thought that since she's the daughter of such a high couple, then marries another important person, you'd think she'd be mentioned more often. Yes I'm a newbie and I've only read as much as LOTR and the Silmarillion would tell me, so I'm curious as to what the more educated peoples have to say. What happened to Celebrian?

***Mithadan*** · 09-03-2003, 12:05 PM

Celebrian was seized by Orcs in the Redhorn pass while en route to Lorien to visit her parents. She was freed by her sons, Elladan and Elrohir, in a great act of valor. However, her torment and injuries at the hands of the Orcs made her weary of Middle Earth and, after a year, she passed into the West. The sum total of this tale appears in less than a paragraph in the Appendices to LoTR in section "A". There is also an entry in The Tale of Years regarding her capture during the Third Age.

Estelyn Telcontar · 09-03-2003, 12:26 PM

This is a good question that will interest other newcomers too, I'm sure. I'm moving the thread to the Novices and Newcomers forum, in hopes that it will find many readers there!

Legolas · 09-03-2003, 12:35 PM

Fame by association doesn't always bring an important character's spouse/family members into the main stories (being the stories of the First Age and the War of the Ring).

Elmo, brother of Telerin lord Olwe and King Thingol; Nimloth, Dior's wife and Elwing's mother; Elenwë, Turgon's wife; Anaire, Fingolfin's wife; Fingon's wife/Gil-galad's mother... No matter how big a part their relatives had in the story, these characters are given little or no character at all.

Celebrian's case (in being left out of The Lord of the Rings plot) is due to the time in which she lived - Elrond was born in the last century of the First Age and Celebrian in the Second Age sometime. This, of course, falls in the gap between the War of Wrath and the happenings documented in The Hobbit, the gap of knowledge left by reading only The Silmarillion, The Hobbit, and the main body of The Lord of the Rings. Her fate does advance the story of her family though - Elrond is separated from his wife and certainly wished to see her once again, Arwen is prematurely separated from her (i.e. long before she would've expected should she remain and wed Aragorn), and Elladan/Elrohir gain the deeper hatred for orcs that led to their companionship with Aragorn and their accompanying him on the Paths of the Dead.

Arothir · 09-03-2003, 02:13 PM

Elenwe was Idril's mother. I don't think Elrond would ever bring up Celebrian, as it would bring him much sadness. He also rarely mentions Earendil his father.

Finwe · 09-03-2003, 06:01 PM

I'm sure that Elrond wouldn't have mentioned his parents because by that time, he probably didn't remember much of them. Earendil was often on his voyages, and Elrond had been very young, so I don't think he would have remembered much of his father to talk about.

Legolas · 09-04-2003, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Elenwe was Idril's mother.

Yes?

09-03-2003, 11:49 AM	#1
Elwen_starmaiden Animated Skeleton Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: A van down by the river. Posts: 39	Celebrian Who? What I think is odd is that I never knew Celebrian's name until I read the Silmarillion, she's just Arwen's mother, or the daughter of Celeborn and Galadriel, Elrond's wife. I just thought that since she's the daughter of such a high couple, then marries another important person, you'd think she'd be mentioned more often. Yes I'm a newbie and I've only read as much as LOTR and the Silmarillion would tell me, so I'm curious as to what the more educated peoples have to say. What happened to Celebrian? __________________ "Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not." -George Bernard Shaw

09-03-2003, 12:05 PM	#2
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,381	Celebrian was seized by Orcs in the Redhorn pass while en route to Lorien to visit her parents. She was freed by her sons, Elladan and Elrohir, in a great act of valor. However, her torment and injuries at the hands of the Orcs made her weary of Middle Earth and, after a year, she passed into the West. The sum total of this tale appears in less than a paragraph in the Appendices to LoTR in section "A". There is also an entry in The Tale of Years regarding her capture during the Third Age. __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.

09-03-2003, 12:26 PM	#3
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	This is a good question that will interest other newcomers too, I'm sure. I'm moving the thread to the Novices and Newcomers forum, in hopes that it will find many readers there! __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

09-03-2003, 12:35 PM	#4
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Fame by association doesn't always bring an important character's spouse/family members into the main stories (being the stories of the First Age and the War of the Ring). Elmo, brother of Telerin lord Olwe and King Thingol; Nimloth, Dior's wife and Elwing's mother; Elenwë, Turgon's wife; Anaire, Fingolfin's wife; Fingon's wife/Gil-galad's mother... No matter how big a part their relatives had in the story, these characters are given little or no character at all. Celebrian's case (in being left out of The Lord of the Rings plot) is due to the time in which she lived - Elrond was born in the last century of the First Age and Celebrian in the Second Age sometime. This, of course, falls in the gap between the War of Wrath and the happenings documented in The Hobbit, the gap of knowledge left by reading only The Silmarillion, The Hobbit, and the main body of The Lord of the Rings. Her fate does advance the story of her family though - Elrond is separated from his wife and certainly wished to see her once again, Arwen is prematurely separated from her (i.e. long before she would've expected should she remain and wed Aragorn), and Elladan/Elrohir gain the deeper hatred for orcs that led to their companionship with Aragorn and their accompanying him on the Paths of the Dead. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

09-03-2003, 02:13 PM	#5
Arothir Wight Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: the Realm of Nargothrond beyond Narog Posts: 163	Elenwe was Idril's mother. I don't think Elrond would ever bring up Celebrian, as it would bring him much sadness. He also rarely mentions Earendil his father. __________________ Then Felagund upon the head of Arothir set it: "Nephew mine, till I return this crown is thine."

09-03-2003, 06:01 PM	#6
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	I'm sure that Elrond wouldn't have mentioned his parents because by that time, he probably didn't remember much of them. Earendil was often on his voyages, and Elrond had been very young, so I don't think he would have remembered much of his father to talk about. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.