What's the deal with the silmarillion? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Anastasia · 10-26-2002, 03:36 PM

I mean, seriously. Call me a bad fan if you will, but I just can't seem to understand at all! (This isn't helped by the fact that I broke off in July and started from that place yesterday). When I think I just about understand, Some new terminology appears that I have to look up in the index (which gets me even more confused). I accidentaly turn to the appendix and I get stuck! The appendix is one of the most interesting things I've ever seen! So I read it and read it and guess what...I forget what was going on! So, I have to re-read the whole chapter, going all the way to the beginning again.

So, could some kind, generous soul pleeeeeze give me a rough outline of whats happened so far (I'm on the bit whan Feanor has just returned after the long bit about Melian and how she fought orcs and stuff)...
Please?
Anyone?
[img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

P.S. I also think that Feanor is the most annoying person ever, which doesnt exactly help my concentration.

P.P.S. Please don't think that I am too young/too un-advanced etc. to read Silm. I am, its just....

tangerine · 10-26-2002, 09:41 PM

I understand. It's like reading thru a history textbook about a country about which you only know a few recent stories, and the fragments of some old stories. The Silm is where it all comes together.
The first time I read it I felt like I was back in my gr 10 english class, where I had to look at all of these creation myths, and this was just the same. But if you can link it to some of the things in LOTR...for example, the Balrog in FOTR (extremely well done in the movie, I was impressed) was one of the lesser spirits who sided with Melkor (later Morgoth) in the beginning, or that Shelob is the last child of Ungoliant, who drained the light from the Two Trees, which had lit the world back then. Also, you can follow how Sauron got to where he was from the beginning. A point I found especially interesting was that in the very beginning, both Sauron and Saruman served Aule, whose sense of ambition has been noted as somewhat similar to Melkor's. (Hmmm...)
The Silm is better read as a reference. Tolkien had wanted it published before LOTR, but the sheer volume of history made it difficult to do so until after his death. I was not able to read the whole thing all at once, and left a few chapters to read for later, or skipped ahead to look at something else.
If you still can't get thru it, there are two other books I know of that summarize most of it pretty well. Unfinished Tales gives you some of the more dramatic stories of the Elder Days, and descibes certain points of interest (Istari, palantari, Numenor) in more detail. The Lost Road has TWO timelines that summarize the parts that you seem to be stuck in. However, the Silmarilien is the complete story of Middle-earth, and is really worth the read. (I swear, as soon as they take the focus off Valinor and focus on the elves and men and battles it'll lose that whole textbook feel to it. However, the index is ther for a reason. The book was probably written in the knowledge that not all of the readers would speak elvish.)
Enojy! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Nilwen · 10-26-2002, 10:01 PM

I am currently reading "The Book Of Lost Tales",and find it a much easier read than The Silm.I ahve tryed to read The Silm a couple of time and end up falling asleep.I think The Silm will be easier to read once I have finished The Lost Tales.Just a thought.

Diamond18 · 10-26-2002, 10:15 PM

Hmm...when I read the Silmarillion I was glued to it...couldn't put it down...stayed up for hours with bloodshot eyes in the wee hours of the morning... And then finally! the Men arrived! Then I was able to put it down, feeling as if I had reached a milestone (and then picked it up the next day and finished it).

So, erm, ummm, I guess I didn't have the same problem. I thought of it as all the secrets of Middle-earth revealed. Perhaps you should try looking at it that way... I know that it made LotR a lot more understandable on subsequent readings. Every time some character refers to the ancient past now I don't have to stratch my head. (Ditto for Elbereth Gilthoniel. Man, that cooked my noodle the first time I read LotR. "What are they talking about!?" was my thought.)

The Silmarillion is the key to unlock LotR!

Anastasia · 10-27-2002, 04:26 AM

Thanks, thats really helpful! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Rose Cotton · 10-27-2002, 01:07 PM

The Silmarilion is hard for me to understand too. But I found a way to get through it. Try reading "A Reader's Guide to The Silmarilion" by Paul H. Kocher It tells the story in a way that I find easy to follow and plus it gives some backround about where Tolkien got all his ideas. Once I'm done with this I'm going to try and read the actuall Silmarilion again. I should do much better this time.

Frodo Baggins · 10-27-2002, 01:59 PM

The Silmarillion helped me to understand LOTR So much beter, it opened a whole new door for me. I had no troulbe whatsoever understanding it and love it to pieces.
Yes Feanor is wierd, a nut and terribly annoying.

Elenna · 10-27-2002, 03:36 PM

Well, I'm still trying to plug through the Silmarillion. It's like reading the Bible - "and then so-and-so begat whoever". But if you read it in small doses, it's easier. For example, I'll read the Ainulindale one night, and the Valaquenta the next. That way, I have time to digest all that high-falutin language.

Good luck! It's worth the read!

Childlike Empress · 10-27-2002, 04:12 PM

As someone said, it gets much easier after you leave Valinor and get into the tales of the Elves and Men. I also found that it greatly helpful to make notes about bloodlines and names. Even with the Indeces, it's easier to have the information right there in front of you rather than have to keep flipping through the back of the book.

I didn't think Feanor was either wierd or crazy; he was just terribly driven and very smart and rather impulsive.

Laurelin · 11-09-2002, 12:18 PM

Eleyna has gotten really mad at me for reading the Sil. cause she thinks I'm to young but she said I did get the outline like she did when she read it, and I'm 3 years younger then her!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Manwe Sulimo · 11-09-2002, 01:47 PM

It's probably better that you all hate Fëanor instead of some other character, because we all know what happens to him.

Here's your rough outline:

-Melkor becomes evil for no apparent reason.
-Lots of Maiar defect to Melkor's side.
-The Valar make some pretty laterns that light the world.
-Melkor destroys the Lanterns, and is pushed by the Valar Outside The World.

End Act I.

Intermission.

Act II.

-Melkor comes back. He makes a nice little hovel to live in (Utumno).
-The Valar get annoyed, and decide to leave and make a nice continent for themselves.
-Melkor runs around killing things and generally ruining Middle-earth.
-The Valar make Aman and live there.

End Act II.

Intermission.

Act III.

-The Elves awaken.
-The Valar say "Oh no, the Elves are awake!" and proceed to arrest Melkor and charge him with loitering and disturbing the peace. He is given 3-9 ages.
-The Valar then try to draw the Elves to Valinor, and only half succeed. Some (the Sindar) remain in Beleriand, the westernmost part of Middle-earth.

End Act III.

Intermission.

Act IV.

-Lots of boring stuff about each of the Elves.
-Lots of boring stuff about letting Melkor free...oh, wait.
(ah-hem)
-Melkor, after 3 ages, is let free. He proceeds to corrupt Elves left and right, which somehow the Valar don't detect.
-Fëanor and Fingolfin (sons of Finwë) get into a fight over something nobody remembers anymore. The former tries to skewer the latter and is exiled.
-Manwë holds a big party, which everyone comes to, except Melkor. Melkor kills Finwë and destroys the Two Trees (I guess I forgot about those...) with Ungolient.
-Everyone (except for Melkor) is sad.

End Act IV.

I guess I added a bit too much sarcasm in there...try to read around it, plz.

Aramacil · 11-09-2002, 03:19 PM

I’m still reading the Silm, I’ve stopped for about 2 weeks now, and I intend to continue as soon as possible, but it really is like a history book, it’s all very interesting and I want to know every little bit about it, but it just isn’t an easy book to read.

But I think the book contains to many characters and names, it’s hard to keep track of everything without the appendix.

P.S. I intend to start reading again tonight [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

busybee · 11-10-2002, 01:04 PM

This is how i'm reading the Sil....
-Reading the Sil for about 2 days
-Overloaded with names i retire to a less tiring book and finish it
-bit more Sil
-more names so another book
-more Sil
-another book
-more Sil
-get fed up don't read it for about a month
-resolve to read it but have to start from the beggining.Forgotten all the names

As you might have noticed is that i cannot keep track of so many names even though there is a handy Family tree and stuff.
But it can't tell you who's good elf or bad elf.......and not all the ppl are there.....
for eg.where does Beleg and the Dwarf Mim or whatever come into the story!
but still like Diamond says it makes everything much clearer in LOTR.
I agree Feanor is an idiot [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img]
That was an excellent summary Manwe Sulimo

Lindril Arvilya · 11-10-2002, 03:55 PM

Yeah, I've finally gotten ahold of... borrowed... ok fine I stole it off my friend's shelf. He knows I have it.... no-one else I know would want to read it.
But the theory I have is that you simply cannot stop reading it until you're finished. Just press your way through nonstop til the end, and reread it later at your leisure. I'll forget the names if I leave them longer than a few hours, so that's why I stay up til all hours of the night reading it. Maybe I can finish it tonight... oh thank God...

alkquareiel02 · 11-12-2002, 01:38 AM

I have read the Silm 5 and half times and Ilove it and no1 is allowed near it at home. It is a wicked book when u get into it, and gives u better understanding of stuff in the LOTR. It is one of my faves, I don't know I just love that book! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

10-26-2002, 03:36 PM	#1
Anastasia Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: London Posts: 91	What's the deal with the silmarillion? I mean, seriously. Call me a bad fan if you will, but I just can't seem to understand at all! (This isn't helped by the fact that I broke off in July and started from that place yesterday). When I think I just about understand, Some new terminology appears that I have to look up in the index (which gets me even more confused). I accidentaly turn to the appendix and I get stuck! The appendix is one of the most interesting things I've ever seen! So I read it and read it and guess what...I forget what was going on! So, I have to re-read the whole chapter, going all the way to the beginning again. So, could some kind, generous soul pleeeeeze give me a rough outline of whats happened so far (I'm on the bit whan Feanor has just returned after the long bit about Melian and how she fought orcs and stuff)... Please? Anyone? [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] P.S. I also think that Feanor is the most annoying person ever, which doesnt exactly help my concentration. P.P.S. Please don't think that I am too young/too un-advanced etc. to read Silm. I am, its just.... __________________ Aw, you've done grand, laddie! Now you know what you have to do: Burn the house down. Burn 'em all! ~The Leprechaun from The Simpsons.

10-26-2002, 10:01 PM	#3
Nilwen Haunting Spirit Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Fangorn Posts: 82	I am currently reading "The Book Of Lost Tales",and find it a much easier read than The Silm.I ahve tryed to read The Silm a couple of time and end up falling asleep.I think The Silm will be easier to read once I have finished The Lost Tales.Just a thought. __________________ "It's a shortcut, it's supposed to be hard... if it was easy it would be 'the way'."

10-26-2002, 10:15 PM	#4
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	Hmm...when I read the Silmarillion I was glued to it...couldn't put it down...stayed up for hours with bloodshot eyes in the wee hours of the morning... And then finally! the Men arrived! Then I was able to put it down, feeling as if I had reached a milestone (and then picked it up the next day and finished it). So, erm, ummm, I guess I didn't have the same problem. I thought of it as all the secrets of Middle-earth revealed. Perhaps you should try looking at it that way... I know that it made LotR a lot more understandable on subsequent readings. Every time some character refers to the ancient past now I don't have to stratch my head. (Ditto for Elbereth Gilthoniel. Man, that cooked my noodle the first time I read LotR. "What are they talking about!?" was my thought.) The Silmarillion is the key to unlock LotR! __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

10-27-2002, 04:26 AM	#5
Anastasia Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: London Posts: 91	Thanks, thats really helpful! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Aw, you've done grand, laddie! Now you know what you have to do: Burn the house down. Burn 'em all! ~The Leprechaun from The Simpsons.

10-27-2002, 01:07 PM	#6
Rose Cotton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: A place worse then Mordor........School! Posts: 1,075	The Silmarilion is hard for me to understand too. But I found a way to get through it. Try reading "A Reader's Guide to The Silmarilion" by Paul H. Kocher It tells the story in a way that I find easy to follow and plus it gives some backround about where Tolkien got all his ideas. Once I'm done with this I'm going to try and read the actuall Silmarilion again. I should do much better this time. __________________ "There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?)

10-26-2002, 09:41 PM	#2
tangerine Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 100	I understand. It's like reading thru a history textbook about a country about which you only know a few recent stories, and the fragments of some old stories. The Silm is where it all comes together. The first time I read it I felt like I was back in my gr 10 english class, where I had to look at all of these creation myths, and this was just the same. But if you can link it to some of the things in LOTR...for example, the Balrog in FOTR (extremely well done in the movie, I was impressed) was one of the lesser spirits who sided with Melkor (later Morgoth) in the beginning, or that Shelob is the last child of Ungoliant, who drained the light from the Two Trees, which had lit the world back then. Also, you can follow how Sauron got to where he was from the beginning. A point I found especially interesting was that in the very beginning, both Sauron and Saruman served Aule, whose sense of ambition has been noted as somewhat similar to Melkor's. (Hmmm...) The Silm is better read as a reference. Tolkien had wanted it published before LOTR, but the sheer volume of history made it difficult to do so until after his death. I was not able to read the whole thing all at once, and left a few chapters to read for later, or skipped ahead to look at something else. If you still can't get thru it, there are two other books I know of that summarize most of it pretty well. Unfinished Tales gives you some of the more dramatic stories of the Elder Days, and descibes certain points of interest (Istari, palantari, Numenor) in more detail. The Lost Road has TWO timelines that summarize the parts that you seem to be stuck in. However, the Silmarilien is the complete story of Middle-earth, and is really worth the read. (I swear, as soon as they take the focus off Valinor and focus on the elves and men and battles it'll lose that whole textbook feel to it. However, the index is ther for a reason. The book was probably written in the knowledge that not all of the readers would speak elvish.) Enojy! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

10-27-2002, 01:59 PM	#7
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	The Silmarillion helped me to understand LOTR So much beter, it opened a whole new door for me. I had no troulbe whatsoever understanding it and love it to pieces. Yes Feanor is wierd, a nut and terribly annoying. __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."

10-27-2002, 03:36 PM	#8
Elenna A Ghostly Light Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: My private bubble of innocence Posts: 563	Well, I'm still trying to plug through the Silmarillion. It's like reading the Bible - "and then so-and-so begat whoever". But if you read it in small doses, it's easier. For example, I'll read the Ainulindale one night, and the Valaquenta the next. That way, I have time to digest all that high-falutin language. Good luck! It's worth the read! __________________ If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is "God is crying." And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is "Probably because of something you did."

10-27-2002, 04:12 PM	#9
Childlike Empress Wight Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Fantasia Posts: 109	As someone said, it gets much easier after you leave Valinor and get into the tales of the Elves and Men. I also found that it greatly helpful to make notes about bloodlines and names. Even with the Indeces, it's easier to have the information right there in front of you rather than have to keep flipping through the back of the book. I didn't think Feanor was either wierd or crazy; he was just terribly driven and very smart and rather impulsive. __________________ Fantasia is with you in your heart. It is the story of which we are a part. Take my hand, come with me, join in my Neverending Story.

11-09-2002, 12:18 PM	#10
Laurelin Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Lothlorien Posts: 31	Eleyna has gotten really mad at me for reading the Sil. cause she thinks I'm to young but she said I did get the outline like she did when she read it, and I'm 3 years younger then her!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ It's all greek to me!! PIZAZZZ!!

11-09-2002, 01:47 PM	#11
Manwe Sulimo Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor Posts: 553	It's probably better that you all hate Fëanor instead of some other character, because we all know what happens to him. Here's your rough outline: -Melkor becomes evil for no apparent reason. -Lots of Maiar defect to Melkor's side. -The Valar make some pretty laterns that light the world. -Melkor destroys the Lanterns, and is pushed by the Valar Outside The World. End Act I. Intermission. Act II. -Melkor comes back. He makes a nice little hovel to live in (Utumno). -The Valar get annoyed, and decide to leave and make a nice continent for themselves. -Melkor runs around killing things and generally ruining Middle-earth. -The Valar make Aman and live there. End Act II. Intermission. Act III. -The Elves awaken. -The Valar say "Oh no, the Elves are awake!" and proceed to arrest Melkor and charge him with loitering and disturbing the peace. He is given 3-9 ages. -The Valar then try to draw the Elves to Valinor, and only half succeed. Some (the Sindar) remain in Beleriand, the westernmost part of Middle-earth. End Act III. Intermission. Act IV. -Lots of boring stuff about each of the Elves. -Lots of boring stuff about letting Melkor free...oh, wait. (ah-hem) -Melkor, after 3 ages, is let free. He proceeds to corrupt Elves left and right, which somehow the Valar don't detect. -Fëanor and Fingolfin (sons of Finwë) get into a fight over something nobody remembers anymore. The former tries to skewer the latter and is exiled. -Manwë holds a big party, which everyone comes to, except Melkor. Melkor kills Finwë and destroys the Two Trees (I guess I forgot about those...) with Ungolient. -Everyone (except for Melkor) is sad. End Act IV. I guess I added a bit too much sarcasm in there...try to read around it, plz. __________________ "Monkeys learn sign language so they can tell the dolphins they love them."

11-09-2002, 03:19 PM	#12
Aramacil Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 131	I’m still reading the Silm, I’ve stopped for about 2 weeks now, and I intend to continue as soon as possible, but it really is like a history book, it’s all very interesting and I want to know every little bit about it, but it just isn’t an easy book to read. But I think the book contains to many characters and names, it’s hard to keep track of everything without the appendix. P.S. I intend to start reading again tonight [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ "I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."

11-10-2002, 01:04 PM	#13
busybee Haunting Spirit Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mirkwood, Lothlorien...dream...actually the middle of nowhere...Mumbai Posts: 89	This is how i'm reading the Sil.... -Reading the Sil for about 2 days -Overloaded with names i retire to a less tiring book and finish it -bit more Sil -more names so another book -more Sil -another book -more Sil -get fed up don't read it for about a month -resolve to read it but have to start from the beggining.Forgotten all the names As you might have noticed is that i cannot keep track of so many names even though there is a handy Family tree and stuff. But it can't tell you who's good elf or bad elf.......and not all the ppl are there..... for eg.where does Beleg and the Dwarf Mim or whatever come into the story! but still like Diamond says it makes everything much clearer in LOTR. I agree Feanor is an idiot [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] That was an excellent summary Manwe Sulimo __________________ Pleeze does anyone know of a magical doorway or something to Middle Earth!?!?

11-10-2002, 03:55 PM	#14
Lindril Arvilya Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In a box at the end of Harrison Ford's street, with a pair of binoculars Posts: 332	Yeah, I've finally gotten ahold of... borrowed... ok fine I stole it off my friend's shelf. He knows I have it.... no-one else I know would want to read it. But the theory I have is that you simply cannot stop reading it until you're finished. Just press your way through nonstop til the end, and reread it later at your leisure. I'll forget the names if I leave them longer than a few hours, so that's why I stay up til all hours of the night reading it. Maybe I can finish it tonight... oh thank God... __________________ Neo, watch out! Trinity's going to steal your pants! Pants thief! Pants thief!

11-12-2002, 01:38 AM	#15
alkquareiel02 Animated Skeleton Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: england Posts: 31	I have read the Silm 5 and half times and Ilove it and no1 is allowed near it at home. It is a wicked book when u get into it, and gives u better understanding of stuff in the LOTR. It is one of my faves, I don't know I just love that book! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]