Winter In the Shire: "Yule" Love It! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Inziladun · 12-24-2009, 06:23 PM

I think there may be passing references somewhere in LOTR or The Hobbit to Christmas, though I can't come up with one at the moment.
However, Hobbits of the Shire celebrated Yule, which was apparently an important holiday.

Quote:

Great stores of goods and food, and beer, were found that had been hidden away by the ruffians in sheds and barns and deserted holes....so that there was a great deal better cheer that Yule than anyone had hoped for.

LOTR The Grey Havens

It's on the Shire Calender, spanning two days.
So what was "Yule" to the Hobbits? Their customs seem to have been mainly derived from things observed by Men and Elves, yet those races don't seem to have any holidays like Christmas.
Did it hold any meaning for the Hobbits? Or was it just another excuse to have a party?

Rumil · 12-24-2009, 07:43 PM

Generally I guess Yule is the old winter solstice celebration.

ie, winter's been tough, and we're only half way through, but the sun is coming back - party time!

Inziladun · 12-24-2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumil

Generally I guess Yule is the old winter solstice celebration.

ie, winter's been tough, and we're only half way through, but the sun is coming back - party time!

If it had something to do with the Sun though, you'd think the Elves (and Númenóreans) would have been observing some High Day then, too, but I don't recall anything which suggests that.

Pitchwife · 12-25-2009, 06:25 PM

The most (or indeed, the only) detailed description of Elvish Yule customs that I'm aware of is to be found in BoLT, but I've no idea how much, if any, of this Tolkien still considered valid or (ahem) canonical at the time of writing LotR. It mainly revolves around the ceremony of Turuhalme, the Logdrawing, i.e. fetching of the Yule Log, the burning of which was accompanied by telling some long stories from past Elven history.
Googling Turuhalme , I just stumbled across this site here, which features some rather esoteric but nonetheless interesting discussion of the topic, drawing connections to both Norse and Celtic festivals of the winter season, and also includes some extensive quotes from BoLT itself on the matter.

On a more humorous note, Ibrin's new avatar made me imagine Gandalf disguised as Father Yule bringing presents to the Old Took's numerous children and grandchildren... but here we enter the realm of (never to be written) fan-fiction.

Ibrîniðilpathânezel · 12-25-2009, 07:08 PM

Hmm, did the Hobbit's Yule include a Father Yule? (Been ages since I read BoLT, I must admit.) The hat might give him away, though.

TheGreatElvenWarrior · 12-27-2009, 02:12 AM

For an actual Christmas as it is today, you would need influence from Jesus or some such figure. Not saying that Christmas revolves around Biblical events at all these days, but it is a "Christian holiday". That was always my reason why there is never a mention of Christmas in the Shire or Middle-earth in general. I think that Yule or the Winter Solstice was brought about much earlier than Christmas. Something like that would be what I think that the peoples of ME would celebrate. Again, this was always my reasoning.

Aganzir · 12-27-2009, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

I think that Yule or the Winter Solstice was brought about much earlier than Christmas.

Yeah, Winter Solstice has been celebrated under various names literally for ages. Christians adopted it as Jesus' birthday because when converting people, it was easier to let them have their traditional festivals, only with the old (sun) deities replaced by Jesus, than to prohibit celebrating altogether.

Since I have a hard time imagining Hobbits were into astronomy, I suppose they just stole the idea of having a Midwinter/Solstice festival from humans or elves, or whoever they happened to be dealing with. The date might have lost its significance later among the other folks, but Hobbits could have kept the tradition alive. After all aren't they just the kind of people who would do that?

TheGreatElvenWarrior · 12-27-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Yeah, Winter Solstice has been celebrated under various names literally for ages. Christians adopted it as Jesus' birthday because when converting people, it was easier to let them have their traditional festivals, only with the old (sun) deities replaced by Jesus, than to prohibit celebrating altogether.

That was exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you.

12-24-2009, 07:43 PM	#2
Rumil Sage & Onions Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Britain Posts: 894	Generally I guess Yule is the old winter solstice celebration. ie, winter's been tough, and we're only half way through, but the sun is coming back - party time! __________________ Rumil of Coedhirion

12-25-2009, 06:25 PM	#4
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	The most (or indeed, the only) detailed description of Elvish Yule customs that I'm aware of is to be found in BoLT, but I've no idea how much, if any, of this Tolkien still considered valid or (ahem) canonical at the time of writing LotR. It mainly revolves around the ceremony of Turuhalme, the Logdrawing, i.e. fetching of the Yule Log, the burning of which was accompanied by telling some long stories from past Elven history. Googling Turuhalme , I just stumbled across this site here, which features some rather esoteric but nonetheless interesting discussion of the topic, drawing connections to both Norse and Celtic festivals of the winter season, and also includes some extensive quotes from BoLT itself on the matter. On a more humorous note, Ibrin's new avatar made me imagine Gandalf disguised as Father Yule bringing presents to the Old Took's numerous children and grandchildren... but here we enter the realm of (never to be written) fan-fiction. __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

12-25-2009, 07:08 PM	#5
Ibrîniðilpathânezel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Back on the Helcaraxe Posts: 733	Hmm, did the Hobbit's Yule include a Father Yule? (Been ages since I read BoLT, I must admit.) The hat might give him away, though. __________________ Call me Ibrin (or Ibri) :) Originality is the one thing that unoriginal minds cannot feel the use of. — John Stewart Mill

12-27-2009, 02:12 AM	#6
TheGreatElvenWarrior Mighty Quill Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Walking off to look for America Posts: 2,230	For an actual Christmas as it is today, you would need influence from Jesus or some such figure. Not saying that Christmas revolves around Biblical events at all these days, but it is a "Christian holiday". That was always my reason why there is never a mention of Christmas in the Shire or Middle-earth in general. I think that Yule or the Winter Solstice was brought about much earlier than Christmas. Something like that would be what I think that the peoples of ME would celebrate. Again, this was always my reasoning. __________________ The Party Doesn't Start Until You're Dead.