Elfhelm's Elf Helm - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Alfirin · 10-30-2009, 05:57 PM

After reading the threads on Elves and Gondor and Elves and Dunland a though occurs to me.
Doesnt the fact that Elfhelm has an Elf Helm meat that at some point there was likey contact between the elves and Rohan. Elfhelm woud have had to get the helmet from somewhere, and if it wasn't the result of direct contact (i.e. Elfhelm recieving it personally from the elves) I would at least seem to be evidece of someone say an ancestor of Elfhelm recieving it. there is of couse that chance that the Helm came from some battlefield or was a war trophy but this doesn't really feel right.

Inziladun · 10-30-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfirin

After reading the threads on Elves and Gondor and Elves and Dunland a though occurs to me.
Doesnt the fact that Elfhelm has an Elf Helm meat that at some point there was likey contact between the elves and Rohan. Elfhelm woud have had to get the helmet from somewhere, and if it wasn't the result of direct contact (i.e. Elfhelm recieving it personally from the elves) I would at least seem to be evidece of someone say an ancestor of Elfhelm recieving it. there is of couse that chance that the Helm came from some battlefield or was a war trophy but this doesn't really feel right.

Dragon treasure, maybe? The horn given to Merry by Éowyn came from the hoard of the dragon Scatha, and who knows what all he had acquired over the years.

Galin · 10-30-2009, 09:13 PM

Maybe the name might mean something like: 'protected (as if) by Elves (magic)'?

But I might be off. The name occurs in Primary World sources, and Leonid L. Korablev's The True Elves of Europe suggests a meaning (not necessarily in a Tolkien context, although '(cf. Elfhelm of Rohan)' is also noted): 'protected by Elves? (helm-protection by Elves)'. The site also notes:

Quote:

Searle's "Onomasticon" (mentioned by Arundell Lowdham, a character of JRRT's "Notion Club Papers") contains 35 different names of the form AElf + adjective (noun); it mentions 75 recorded bearers of the name AElfwine "Elf-friend".

Nerwen · 10-31-2009, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfirin

Doesnt the fact that Elfhelm has an Elf Helm meat that at some point there was likey contact between the elves and Rohan. Elfhelm woud have had to get the helmet from somewhere, and if it wasn't the result of direct contact (i.e. Elfhelm recieving it personally from the elves) I would at least seem to be evidece of someone say an ancestor of Elfhelm recieving it. there is of couse that chance that the Helm came from some battlefield or was a war trophy but this doesn't really feel right.

Does it say he has an "Elf helm"? I thought that was just his name.

davem · 10-31-2009, 08:58 AM

I think its just his name - & the 'helm' element doesn't necessarily mean helmet - it had a range of meanings in Anglo-Saxon:

Quote:

helm [] 1. m (-es/-as) protection, defence, covering, crown; summit, top (of trees); helmet; 2 protector, lord;

This is a decent Anglo-Saxon dictionary http://home.comcast.net/~modean52/oeme_dictionaries.htm

Elfhelm/Aelfhelm is a fairly common Anglo-Saxon name & I suspect Tolkien simply liked the sound of it.

Morthoron · 10-31-2009, 03:14 PM

I guess the real question is, why did Elfhelm want protection from Elves?

Legate of Amon Lanc · 10-31-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morthoron

I guess the real question is, why did Elfhelm want protection from Elves?

Maybe he just "had it". Like, you know, sort of this "oh, this boy is certainly blessed by gods" as we know it from many ancient myths and legends, or something like that. So, like, "mysterious powers (i.e. Elves, for the Rohirrim) guard this boy". Or it could be any way...

Mithalwen · 10-31-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morthoron

I guess the real question is, why did Elfhelm want protection from Elves?

Because with Theodred based at Helm's deep and Eomer at Aldburg he was the one who had to deal with Grima on a daily basis ...for seven years .... enough to get the doughtiest warrior feeling he needed any help going....

William Cloud Hicklin · 12-08-2009, 02:36 PM

I wouldn't take it any more literally than the genuine OE name Aelfwine "elf-friend"- which didn't imply that the bearer palled around with actual elves!

10-30-2009, 05:57 PM	#1
Alfirin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 435	Elfhelm's Elf Helm After reading the threads on Elves and Gondor and Elves and Dunland a though occurs to me. Doesnt the fact that Elfhelm has an Elf Helm meat that at some point there was likey contact between the elves and Rohan. Elfhelm woud have had to get the helmet from somewhere, and if it wasn't the result of direct contact (i.e. Elfhelm recieving it personally from the elves) I would at least seem to be evidece of someone say an ancestor of Elfhelm recieving it. there is of couse that chance that the Helm came from some battlefield or was a war trophy but this doesn't really feel right.

10-31-2009, 03:14 PM	#6
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,509	I guess the real question is, why did Elfhelm want protection from Elves? __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

12-08-2009, 02:36 PM	#9
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,321	I wouldn't take it any more literally than the genuine OE name Aelfwine "elf-friend"- which didn't imply that the bearer palled around with actual elves! __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.