Evil Women - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

05-20-2002, 07:13 PM

So, can people name me some female villians of middle earth. Please include some background information on her, so I can know who is being talked about. Thanks.

Susan Delgado · 05-20-2002, 07:47 PM

Naturally, Shelob and Ungoliant come to mind, and one could call Lobelia S-B a villian if one were so inclined. Otherwise, who knows? Why do you want female villians?

piosenniel · 05-20-2002, 08:56 PM

Welcome to the Downs, Thuringwethil!!!
Are you designing a character for an RPG. Other than Shelob and Ungoliant as mentioned before, I can't recall any women of evil intent. Not sure there were even any female Orcs.

Lossenavariel · 05-20-2002, 09:02 PM

Shelob wasn't really a woman... I mean, she was female, but not really a woman.... does that make sense?

Joy · 05-20-2002, 09:02 PM

The only other one that I can think of is Queen Berthueil (sp). She is mentioned on FotR by Aragorn in the Mines of Moria.

Kalimac · 05-20-2002, 11:57 PM

Hmmm, the Faithful Four; Lobelia, Shelob, Ungoliant and Queen Beruthiel. Can't really think of anyone else who doesn't live exclusively in the appendices, but if you don't mind those characters there is always Tar-Ancalime, who wasn't exactly easy to get along with. Odd that all of these villainesses (except for Lobelia, and she's kind of iffy anyway) are queens? Beruthiel and Tar-Ancalime, obviously, and even Shelob and Ungoliant are essentially the ruling queens of their highly unpleasant species. There's no grubby female equivalent to Gollum, and no female Ugluk or Saruman. Most interesting...

piosenniel · 05-21-2002, 12:54 AM

Were any of the dragons female? They were corrupted by Morgoth and were creatures of evil.

It seems as if most of the women in the LOTR and Silmarillion were more victims of evil machinations and not corrupted into being evil themselves.

Lothiriel Silmarien · 05-21-2002, 01:35 PM

I agree, Queen Beruthial was one, Tar-Ancalime can be considered one, Ungoliant, and Shelob. But isn't there also that Vampire one that Luthien changed into. I think it was Thuringwethil, something like that. And I think someone has that name too! Ok, let me think if there are any others....well, ok I know this is mentioned in some book, and I posted something like this in the orc women topic, but I read (sorry forget which book, although I think it's Unfinished Tales) but I read somewhere that before the Rohirrim came to settle right above Gondor, they used to live in Mirkwood somewhere, am I right? Correct me if I'm wrong. They used to be in fights with the Easterlings and such, and the Easterling women were very fierce and would fight the men to protect their homes and such because the men would burn them. So, you can kinda consider the Easterling women evil, cuz sometimes they'd even kill them.

Aosama, the Wandering Star · 05-22-2002, 11:04 PM

Lothiriel: If you were to consider the Easterling women evil just because they defended their homes and lives from men who would burn them, doesn't that make the people of Rohan and Gondor evil too, since they defended themselves as well? Yes, killing is very evil. But I think this is a double standard: Gondorians and Rohirrim can kill because they're 'good guys', and... Easterlings (or the women anyway) can't? Sorry, this will be controversial but its also very confusing.
but back to the topic... There don't seem to be any other than those already mentioned. If you want to study any, I'd say Queen Beruthiel because not a lot of people know much about her, and her story is kinda mysterious.

[ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: Aosama, the Wandering Star ]

Joy · 05-22-2002, 11:41 PM

As far as Tar-Ancalimë, I can not say anything, as I do not know all of her story. Thuringwethil - The ‘Woman of Secret Shadow’, the vampire servant of Morgoth was definatly evil. I had forgotten about her. BTW, which version is that story in, is the Sil, BoLT2 or Lays? I hate to ask, but I read all three at the same time [img]smilies/redface.gif[/img]

Joy · 05-23-2002, 12:12 AM

Take a look at this link Tar-Ancalime.

Interesting story!

05-20-2002, 07:13 PM	#1
Thuringwethil Guest Posts: n/a	Evil Women So, can people name me some female villians of middle earth. Please include some background information on her, so I can know who is being talked about. Thanks.

05-20-2002, 07:47 PM	#2
Susan Delgado The Perished Flame Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: behind my eyes Posts: 1,096	Naturally, Shelob and Ungoliant come to mind, and one could call Lobelia S-B a villian if one were so inclined. Otherwise, who knows? Why do you want female villians? __________________ "Man as a whole, Man pitted against the universe, have we seen him at all 'til we see that he is like a hero in a fairy tale?"

05-20-2002, 08:56 PM	#3
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	Welcome to the Downs, Thuringwethil!!! Are you designing a character for an RPG. Other than Shelob and Ungoliant as mentioned before, I can't recall any women of evil intent. Not sure there were even any female Orcs. __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

05-20-2002, 09:02 PM	#4
Lossenavariel Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Marish Posts: 17	Shelob wasn't really a woman... I mean, she was female, but not really a woman.... does that make sense? __________________ Lossenavariel

05-20-2002, 09:02 PM	#5
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,012	The only other one that I can think of is Queen Berthueil (sp). She is mentioned on FotR by Aragorn in the Mines of Moria. __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

05-20-2002, 11:57 PM	#6
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	Hmmm, the Faithful Four; Lobelia, Shelob, Ungoliant and Queen Beruthiel. Can't really think of anyone else who doesn't live exclusively in the appendices, but if you don't mind those characters there is always Tar-Ancalime, who wasn't exactly easy to get along with. Odd that all of these villainesses (except for Lobelia, and she's kind of iffy anyway) are queens? Beruthiel and Tar-Ancalime, obviously, and even Shelob and Ungoliant are essentially the ruling queens of their highly unpleasant species. There's no grubby female equivalent to Gollum, and no female Ugluk or Saruman. Most interesting... __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

05-21-2002, 12:54 AM	#7
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	Were any of the dragons female? They were corrupted by Morgoth and were creatures of evil. It seems as if most of the women in the LOTR and Silmarillion were more victims of evil machinations and not corrupted into being evil themselves. __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

05-21-2002, 01:35 PM	#8
Lothiriel Silmarien Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New York Posts: 829	I agree, Queen Beruthial was one, Tar-Ancalime can be considered one, Ungoliant, and Shelob. But isn't there also that Vampire one that Luthien changed into. I think it was Thuringwethil, something like that. And I think someone has that name too! Ok, let me think if there are any others....well, ok I know this is mentioned in some book, and I posted something like this in the orc women topic, but I read (sorry forget which book, although I think it's Unfinished Tales) but I read somewhere that before the Rohirrim came to settle right above Gondor, they used to live in Mirkwood somewhere, am I right? Correct me if I'm wrong. They used to be in fights with the Easterlings and such, and the Easterling women were very fierce and would fight the men to protect their homes and such because the men would burn them. So, you can kinda consider the Easterling women evil, cuz sometimes they'd even kill them. __________________ Si vanwa na Romello vanwa Valimar!~~ ~~Now lost, lost to those from the East is Valimar! My LotR page

05-22-2002, 11:04 PM	#9
Aosama, the Wandering Star Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Middle-Earth Posts: 210	Lothiriel: If you were to consider the Easterling women evil just because they defended their homes and lives from men who would burn them, doesn't that make the people of Rohan and Gondor evil too, since they defended themselves as well? Yes, killing is very evil. But I think this is a double standard: Gondorians and Rohirrim can kill because they're 'good guys', and... Easterlings (or the women anyway) can't? Sorry, this will be controversial but its also very confusing. but back to the topic... There don't seem to be any other than those already mentioned. If you want to study any, I'd say Queen Beruthiel because not a lot of people know much about her, and her story is kinda mysterious. [ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: Aosama, the Wandering Star ]

05-22-2002, 11:41 PM	#10
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,012	As far as Tar-Ancalimë, I can not say anything, as I do not know all of her story. Thuringwethil - The ‘Woman of Secret Shadow’, the vampire servant of Morgoth was definatly evil. I had forgotten about her. BTW, which version is that story in, is the Sil, BoLT2 or Lays? I hate to ask, but I read all three at the same time [img]smilies/redface.gif[/img] __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

05-23-2002, 12:12 AM	#11
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,012	Take a look at this link Tar-Ancalime. Interesting story! __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?