Sympathy for the Devil? - Page 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Bêthberry · 05-30-2009, 07:16 PM

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Originally Posted by alatar

thanks for all the help in fulfilling my plan

You're welcome.

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I was thinking more about reconciliation than thirty pieces of silver and the potter's field.

You don't know the Gnostics on Judas?

Did Melkor's actions make Eru's music grander and more beautiful? Did Melkor fulfil Eru's music? Or did Melkor betray his god?

alatar · 05-30-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

You're welcome.

Your 'help' is always so appreciated.

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You don't know the Gnostics on Judas?

Surely not as well as you. How so?

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Did Melkor's actions make Eru's music grander and more beautiful?

Surely.

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Did Melkor fulfil Eru's music?

Not sure what that means.

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Or did Melkor betray his god?

Only Eru knows.

But in the end of all things, will Eru say of Melkor and his second, Sauron, "Well done, good and faithful servant!" Or will He say, "So long, and thanks for all the fish"?

Morwen · 09-18-2009, 10:12 AM

On the question of the One's existence after Sauron's defeat at the end of the second Age, I don't know that Sauron ever thought the Ring was actually destroyed. He must have been aware that in allowing much of his power to pass into the Ring that he was making himself vulnerable. Should the Ring ever be destroyed, he would be destroyed as well. He certainly seems aware of this when Frodo claims the Ring in Mt. Doom. I don't have my LotR with me but there is a passage that describes how at that point Sauron abandoned all thought of his war and his calculations and his mind became focused on his Ring and the potential peril that he was in. So I agree with the view that his continued existence in Middle Earth should have been proof enough that his ring was still around. Lost, perhaps, but still around.
The extreme difficulty in destroying the Ring should also have informed his thinking. One of the reasons Sauron may have been willing to risk putting a great deal of his power into an object is because he was fairly certain that there was only the tiniest chance that the object could in fact be destroyed. The Ring could only be unmade at one specific place - the fires where it was originally forged and then only if someone possessed the will power to toss it in there. I think Sauron would have considered the latter possibility too remote to be entertained.

Inziladun · 09-18-2009, 11:16 AM

Is this a question of great minds thinking alike?

Morwen · 09-18-2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Is this a question of great minds thinking alike?

I wouldn't argue with that

. Good thread. Perhaps I should post further thoughts there.

09-18-2009, 10:12 AM	#43
Morwen Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 274	Somewhat off topic ... On the question of the One's existence after Sauron's defeat at the end of the second Age, I don't know that Sauron ever thought the Ring was actually destroyed. He must have been aware that in allowing much of his power to pass into the Ring that he was making himself vulnerable. Should the Ring ever be destroyed, he would be destroyed as well. He certainly seems aware of this when Frodo claims the Ring in Mt. Doom. I don't have my LotR with me but there is a passage that describes how at that point Sauron abandoned all thought of his war and his calculations and his mind became focused on his Ring and the potential peril that he was in. So I agree with the view that his continued existence in Middle Earth should have been proof enough that his ring was still around. Lost, perhaps, but still around. The extreme difficulty in destroying the Ring should also have informed his thinking. One of the reasons Sauron may have been willing to risk putting a great deal of his power into an object is because he was fairly certain that there was only the tiniest chance that the object could in fact be destroyed. The Ring could only be unmade at one specific place - the fires where it was originally forged and then only if someone possessed the will power to toss it in there. I think Sauron would have considered the latter possibility too remote to be entertained. __________________ He looked down at her in the twilight and it seemed to him that the lines of grief and cruel hardship were smoothed away. "She was not conquered," he said Last edited by Morwen; 09-18-2009 at 10:22 AM.

09-18-2009, 11:16 AM	#44
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,037	Is this a question of great minds thinking alike? __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.