What if Elrond said "The Company of the Ring shall be.... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Furry-footed Flatfoot the Hobbit · 09-16-2002, 10:56 PM

What if Elrond said "The Company of the Ring shall be Eight"??? Which one of the nine would you do without in the journey if you had to pick and why?? [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

DarkRose · 09-17-2002, 05:30 AM

Hmm, good question! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

This is a tough one. I wouldn't like to get rid of any, really, but I guess if I had to pick one I'd pick either Merry or Pippin.

Don't get me wrong -- Those two hobbits are great and whimsical, two of my favorite characters. They just aren't as necessary to the story as the other Fellowship members,

The Fifth · 09-17-2002, 08:05 AM

I would pick Boromir. Boromir never really had any use in the Fellowship. He was a great man, but he was too concerned about taking the ring and using it as a "gift" for Gondor. It would be better to replace him with a cardboard box.

Durazor · 09-17-2002, 08:16 AM

Actually both merry and pippin had a great impact on events. If they wouldnt take part in the Fellowship many things would have gone very diffirently.

Durazor · 09-17-2002, 08:18 AM

Boromir served as a warning to the Fellowship I believe, thats why they parted ways. Again things would have gone diffirently if Boromir never took part in the Fellowship

Rimbaud · 09-17-2002, 08:33 AM

ALthough 'what if' scenarios frustrate me, normally, I feel obliged to point out, as I always do, that although the story would by different, the objective could have been achieved without either Legolas or Gimli. From these two, I would speculate that Legolas was of lesser import, from a purely plot-driven viewpoint.

the phantom · 09-17-2002, 08:54 AM

I would agree with Rimbaud. Merry and Pippen were incredibly important in the waking of Fangorn, the slaying of the King of the Nazgul, and in saving Faramir's life. Boromir forced Frodo's decision, and if Frodo and Sam had not gone off alone, the ring would've eventually corrupted the rest of the company, and they wouldn't have destroyed the ring because their timing would've been wrong, they might've chosen the wrong way into Mordor since Gollum wouldn't have guided them. Legolas and Gimli, though valiant in battle, altered the course of the war of the ring less than any of the fellowship.

piosenniel · 09-17-2002, 08:57 AM

Personally, I would like to see how the story might have developed if he had left out the Frodo character, and they'd all bumbled along into Moria.

[ September 17, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

The Green Ringwraith · 09-17-2002, 09:38 AM

My answer would be none, because any way you look at it, they all had an impact on the story, either big or little. And somehow, that impact effected an outcome in the story, big or small. So, I think Elrond wouldn't have said that in the first place.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 09-17-2002, 09:52 AM

Well wasn't Boromir going to Minas Tirith anyway? I think he himself might have refused to go with the Fellowship and gone straight back to Gondor weeks before the others left.

Armadoin · 09-17-2002, 10:03 AM

I don't believe that any should be left behind because Tolkien obviously had the characters in there for a reason, even if some can't see it. I don't believe the story would have made much sense without one of the people; besides, 9 is my lucky number! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

***Sharkû*** · 09-17-2002, 10:56 AM

It remains to be noted that Peregrin would have been the one person of the actual Fellowship to be replaced according to the wisdom of Elrond, and that Tolkien wrote as a side note to the istari essay in Unfinished Tales that "Legolas probably achieved least of the Nine Walkers".

Amarie · 09-17-2002, 01:58 PM

Right off it can be narrowed down to getting rid or either Legolas or Gimli. I'd probably go with Gimli because Legolas shot down the warg as it lept at Gandalf. But, even a tiny change caused by Gimli not being there could have caused the warg attack to go another way. The possabilities are endless. There is no right answer as far as my limited knowledge allows me to see.

Rose Cotton · 09-17-2002, 02:14 PM

I'd say Gimli. My reasons are:

-As others have said both Gimli and Legolas did little to impact the story line.
-However, Legolas did contrubute to a very important part. He was the one who interpreted for them when they first entered Lothlorien. Because he was there Haldir's company trusted the Fellowship more. In the movie they lessened Legolas's role by haveing Aragorn do this.
-And Besides if Gimli hadn't been there in Lothlorien the fellowship would have been able to see more of the land. It was because of Gimli that they had to be blindfolded.
I can go look up others but that's what I have right now.

Elven Mistress · 09-17-2002, 04:32 PM

I'm not quite sure who would be taken out - Legolas or Gimly, Merry or Pippin, Tolkien (the genious he is/was) would have found a way to make it all work out.

(but of course the story wouldn't be much good without Pippin.....)

MYyyPreciousSS · 09-17-2002, 05:16 PM

I'm going to agree with those that said Gimli. Really, everyone in the Fellowship was important, but if one absolutely had to go...then I'd say Gimli.
I don't think I could ever let Merry or Pippin go.

Durazor · 09-18-2002, 11:08 AM

Indeed, all were important. But if somebody would force me to make a decision with a blade to my neck, then Id have to say: Gimli

Aramacil · 09-18-2002, 12:31 PM

I think it would be merry or pippin, because Elrond didn't know at that time that they would heve a big part in the story, and at that time they looked rather useless.

Arwen Imladris · 09-18-2002, 02:13 PM

Well the plot will change if you change anything but I think that the least disruptive would have to be Pippin. I know that a lot of people love pippin and so do I but it would be easier to have somebody else help Denethor then for somebody else to help Eowyn. I disagree about legolas and Gimli. Without Legolas they wouldn't have seen a lot of things, like maybe the creban from dunland, or think of all the times somebody asks legolas, what do you see? And without Gimli, it would have been harder to get the felowship to go into the mines. Sam and Frodo needed each other badly in Mordor, Gandalf and Aragorn were needed to win the war. And of cource Boromir was needed to push off Frodo.

Armadoin · 09-18-2002, 02:21 PM

Pippin can't go because if he did then he would have never awakened the drums in the deep and they would have never been attacked by orcs and the Balrog would never have come and finished off Gandalf and he would never have been captured by orcs and would have never helped arouse the ents... the list goes on and on and...

Merry Brandybuck · 09-18-2002, 03:04 PM

I agree with Rose Cotton, as much as dislike Legolas, the elves of Lorien would have slaughtered the enitre company were Legolas
not among them.
In Gimli's defense, he did not have a major impact on the Quest of the Ring itself, but he did rekindle the friendship between the elves and the dwarves once more.
From the point of view of a writer, Legolas and Gimli were needed to create a better contrast of characters, and their unusual friendship to somehow represent the union of different races in face of one ultimate evil.
Pippin and myself were very influential. I stabbed that Nazgul and I stabbed him good. And awakening all the ents of Fangorn and it's surroundings is no easy task!
That stone in the well and the drums in the deep could have been coincidence. If that is not the case, well if Gandalf hadn't fallen into shadow, he would never have returned as Gandalf the White, with much strength and wisdom. I believe Gandalfs return in a a stronger guise contribited to the downfall of Saruman.

What if Elrond had just said,
"Right their all useless, I choose random Elf Prince No.1, random Elf Lord No., random Elf of So and So No.3, random elf who may or may not be related to me No. 4, etc, etc......and Legolas for good measure. Hand over the ring Frodo, have a nice day."

What if the quest was totally dependant on elves...or dwarves....or hobbits even. What if it was not Elronds descion to make. What if Frodo had been on his own right from the start?

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 09-19-2002, 08:43 AM

I don't think Pippin was the least useful. Without Pippin's company, Merry may just have given up. Likewise, Gimli and Legolas needed each other to help themselves through the War.
I said Boromir earlier on, and not just because he was a bit alone in the Fellowship. Remember Elrond and Gandalf were wise and deliberated over the selection. I'm sure Boromir was originally going to Minas Tirith and would not have gone to Mordor, so from the start I'm not sure why he was necessary for Elrond's plan.

Of course, everyone had an impact but you have to place yourself in Elrond's shoes at the Council to answer this question.

Neferchoirwen · 09-20-2002, 11:42 AM

Gimli was important in bringing the elves and the dwarves together. Legolas was also important, since he was their guide through the then unpredictabe Lorien.

Merry and Pippin shouldn't have gone, but they were nice company.

I'd say Boromir. I really didn't like him, and his character seems to clash with that of the other eight. All that is lengthy that I read from him are mostly complains.

Amarie · 09-20-2002, 01:09 PM

To those of you who say that Legolas' role was crucial because he translated in Lothlorien: I disagree.
I think Aragorn could have pulled this off. I do not think the elves would be rash enough to shoot them before finding out who they were.

To those who say that Legolas was needed to point out the crebain...You've been watching to much of the movie, I think. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
Legolas slept while Aragorn saw the Crebain. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

[ September 20, 2002: Message edited by: Amarie ]

09-21-2002, 11:12 AM

I think The Fellowship could do without Gimli.
I think this because Gimli wasn't much help and when they went into Moria he didn't say anything about the lake monster.

VanimaEdhel · 09-21-2002, 03:27 PM

I believe either Legolas or Gimli.

Although their meeting showed us cute, little, funny bickering, and "warmed our hearts" when they became fast friends, the Fellowship would have lived without them. Gimli did absolutely nothing, and, even though Legolas shot the thing in the dark and shot the Warg, that's about it...even though he's my favorite character.

Eglaladiel · 09-21-2002, 06:11 PM

wow! this is hard! i believe it was nine for a purpose! and who could do without Borimir? he did slay the orcs, and he was true at heart! well, all of them are important...well...we could hav went with out pip...then again...you need a little sunshine in cloudy weather!

09-16-2002, 10:56 PM	#1
Furry-footed Flatfoot the Hobbit Pile O'Bones Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 13	What if Elrond said "The Company of the Ring shall be.... What if Elrond said "The Company of the Ring shall be Eight"??? Which one of the nine would you do without in the journey if you had to pick and why?? [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] __________________ Furry-footed Flatfoot the Hobbit from Haysend

09-17-2002, 05:30 AM	#2
DarkRose Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sauron's Garden Posts: 157	Hmm, good question! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] This is a tough one. I wouldn't like to get rid of any, really, but I guess if I had to pick one I'd pick either Merry or Pippin. Don't get me wrong -- Those two hobbits are great and whimsical, two of my favorite characters. They just aren't as necessary to the story as the other Fellowship members, __________________ "All rivers go to the sea, yet never does the sea become full."

09-17-2002, 08:05 AM	#3
The Fifth Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mordor Posts: 427	I would pick Boromir. Boromir never really had any use in the Fellowship. He was a great man, but he was too concerned about taking the ring and using it as a "gift" for Gondor. It would be better to replace him with a cardboard box. __________________ - Ringwraith #5, Servant of the Eye

09-17-2002, 08:16 AM	#4
Durazor Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 25	Actually both merry and pippin had a great impact on events. If they wouldnt take part in the Fellowship many things would have gone very diffirently. __________________ "A Gnoll? Yes, I'm a Gnoll! What's a Gnoll you ask? sigh Just take a look at my avatar!"

09-17-2002, 08:18 AM	#5
Durazor Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 25	Boromir served as a warning to the Fellowship I believe, thats why they parted ways. Again things would have gone diffirently if Boromir never took part in the Fellowship __________________ "A Gnoll? Yes, I'm a Gnoll! What's a Gnoll you ask? sigh Just take a look at my avatar!"

09-17-2002, 08:33 AM	#6
Rimbaud The Perilous Poet Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Heart of the matter Posts: 1,062	ALthough 'what if' scenarios frustrate me, normally, I feel obliged to point out, as I always do, that although the story would by different, the objective could have been achieved without either Legolas or Gimli. From these two, I would speculate that Legolas was of lesser import, from a purely plot-driven viewpoint. __________________ And all the rest is literature

09-17-2002, 08:54 AM	#7
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	I would agree with Rimbaud. Merry and Pippen were incredibly important in the waking of Fangorn, the slaying of the King of the Nazgul, and in saving Faramir's life. Boromir forced Frodo's decision, and if Frodo and Sam had not gone off alone, the ring would've eventually corrupted the rest of the company, and they wouldn't have destroyed the ring because their timing would've been wrong, they might've chosen the wrong way into Mordor since Gollum wouldn't have guided them. Legolas and Gimli, though valiant in battle, altered the course of the war of the ring less than any of the fellowship. __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

09-17-2002, 08:57 AM	#8
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	Personally, I would like to see how the story might have developed if he had left out the Frodo character, and they'd all bumbled along into Moria. [ September 17, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ] __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

09-17-2002, 09:38 AM	#9
The Green Ringwraith Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: On the edge of the world I'll roam and the home of the wolf will be my home. Posts: 77	My answer would be none, because any way you look at it, they all had an impact on the story, either big or little. And somehow, that impact effected an outcome in the story, big or small. So, I think Elrond wouldn't have said that in the first place. __________________ -What is it about the Green ones?- "...they fell under the dominion of the One, and they became Ringwraiths... This one just got a little too gamma ray happy."

09-17-2002, 09:52 AM	#10
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Well wasn't Boromir going to Minas Tirith anyway? I think he himself might have refused to go with the Fellowship and gone straight back to Gondor weeks before the others left. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

09-17-2002, 10:03 AM	#11
Armadoin Haunting Spirit Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Lothlorien, ME... Posts: 54	I don't believe that any should be left behind because Tolkien obviously had the characters in there for a reason, even if some can't see it. I don't believe the story would have made much sense without one of the people; besides, 9 is my lucky number! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ "I must not fear.Fear is the mind killer. fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see it's path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

09-17-2002, 10:56 AM	#12
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	It remains to be noted that Peregrin would have been the one person of the actual Fellowship to be replaced according to the wisdom of Elrond, and that Tolkien wrote as a side note to the istari essay in Unfinished Tales that "Legolas probably achieved least of the Nine Walkers".

09-17-2002, 01:58 PM	#13
Amarie Animated Skeleton Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 33	Right off it can be narrowed down to getting rid or either Legolas or Gimli. I'd probably go with Gimli because Legolas shot down the warg as it lept at Gandalf. But, even a tiny change caused by Gimli not being there could have caused the warg attack to go another way. The possabilities are endless. There is no right answer as far as my limited knowledge allows me to see.

09-17-2002, 02:14 PM	#14
Rose Cotton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: A place worse then Mordor........School! Posts: 1,075	I'd say Gimli. My reasons are: -As others have said both Gimli and Legolas did little to impact the story line. -However, Legolas did contrubute to a very important part. He was the one who interpreted for them when they first entered Lothlorien. Because he was there Haldir's company trusted the Fellowship more. In the movie they lessened Legolas's role by haveing Aragorn do this. -And Besides if Gimli hadn't been there in Lothlorien the fellowship would have been able to see more of the land. It was because of Gimli that they had to be blindfolded. I can go look up others but that's what I have right now. __________________ "There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?)

09-17-2002, 04:32 PM	#15
Elven Mistress Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Lothlorien Posts: 135	I'm not quite sure who would be taken out - Legolas or Gimly, Merry or Pippin, Tolkien (the genious he is/was) would have found a way to make it all work out. (but of course the story wouldn't be much good without Pippin.....) __________________ And i know/ It's only in my mind/ That i'm talking to myself/ And not to him!

09-17-2002, 05:16 PM	#16
MYyyPreciousSS Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: the Here and Now Posts: 113	I'm going to agree with those that said Gimli. Really, everyone in the Fellowship was important, but if one absolutely had to go...then I'd say Gimli. I don't think I could ever let Merry or Pippin go. __________________ Then the heart of Éowyn changed, or else at last she understood it. And suddenly her winter passed, and the sun shone on her. "My Preciousss" - the line that started the obsession.

09-18-2002, 11:08 AM	#17
Durazor Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 25	Indeed, all were important. But if somebody would force me to make a decision with a blade to my neck, then Id have to say: Gimli __________________ "A Gnoll? Yes, I'm a Gnoll! What's a Gnoll you ask? sigh Just take a look at my avatar!"

09-18-2002, 12:31 PM	#18
Aramacil Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 131	I think it would be merry or pippin, because Elrond didn't know at that time that they would heve a big part in the story, and at that time they looked rather useless. __________________ "I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."

09-18-2002, 02:13 PM	#19
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	Well the plot will change if you change anything but I think that the least disruptive would have to be Pippin. I know that a lot of people love pippin and so do I but it would be easier to have somebody else help Denethor then for somebody else to help Eowyn. I disagree about legolas and Gimli. Without Legolas they wouldn't have seen a lot of things, like maybe the creban from dunland, or think of all the times somebody asks legolas, what do you see? And without Gimli, it would have been harder to get the felowship to go into the mines. Sam and Frodo needed each other badly in Mordor, Gandalf and Aragorn were needed to win the war. And of cource Boromir was needed to push off Frodo. __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

09-18-2002, 02:21 PM	#20
Armadoin Haunting Spirit Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Lothlorien, ME... Posts: 54	Pippin can't go because if he did then he would have never awakened the drums in the deep and they would have never been attacked by orcs and the Balrog would never have come and finished off Gandalf and he would never have been captured by orcs and would have never helped arouse the ents... the list goes on and on and... __________________ "I must not fear.Fear is the mind killer. fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see it's path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

09-18-2002, 03:04 PM	#21
Merry Brandybuck Animated Skeleton Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Buckland, The Shire Posts: 31	I agree with Rose Cotton, as much as dislike Legolas, the elves of Lorien would have slaughtered the enitre company were Legolas not among them. In Gimli's defense, he did not have a major impact on the Quest of the Ring itself, but he did rekindle the friendship between the elves and the dwarves once more. From the point of view of a writer, Legolas and Gimli were needed to create a better contrast of characters, and their unusual friendship to somehow represent the union of different races in face of one ultimate evil. Pippin and myself were very influential. I stabbed that Nazgul and I stabbed him good. And awakening all the ents of Fangorn and it's surroundings is no easy task! That stone in the well and the drums in the deep could have been coincidence. If that is not the case, well if Gandalf hadn't fallen into shadow, he would never have returned as Gandalf the White, with much strength and wisdom. I believe Gandalfs return in a a stronger guise contribited to the downfall of Saruman. What if Elrond had just said, "Right their all useless, I choose random Elf Prince No.1, random Elf Lord No., random Elf of So and So No.3, random elf who may or may not be related to me No. 4, etc, etc......and Legolas for good measure. Hand over the ring Frodo, have a nice day." What if the quest was totally dependant on elves...or dwarves....or hobbits even. What if it was not Elronds descion to make. What if Frodo had been on his own right from the start? __________________ Legolas: Crebain from Dunland! The rest of the Fellowship: Whatty from whatland?

09-19-2002, 08:43 AM	#22
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	I don't think Pippin was the least useful. Without Pippin's company, Merry may just have given up. Likewise, Gimli and Legolas needed each other to help themselves through the War. I said Boromir earlier on, and not just because he was a bit alone in the Fellowship. Remember Elrond and Gandalf were wise and deliberated over the selection. I'm sure Boromir was originally going to Minas Tirith and would not have gone to Mordor, so from the start I'm not sure why he was necessary for Elrond's plan. Of course, everyone had an impact but you have to place yourself in Elrond's shoes at the Council to answer this question. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

09-20-2002, 11:42 AM	#23
Neferchoirwen Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: RtR: 483.3 miles, Fords of Bruinen Posts: 512	Gimli was important in bringing the elves and the dwarves together. Legolas was also important, since he was their guide through the then unpredictabe Lorien. Merry and Pippin shouldn't have gone, but they were nice company. I'd say Boromir. I really didn't like him, and his character seems to clash with that of the other eight. All that is lengthy that I read from him are mostly complains. __________________ On really romantic nights of self, I go salsa dancing with my confusion. ~Speed Levitch http://crevicesofsilence.blogspot.com/

09-20-2002, 01:09 PM	#24
Amarie Animated Skeleton Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 33	To those of you who say that Legolas' role was crucial because he translated in Lothlorien: I disagree. I think Aragorn could have pulled this off. I do not think the elves would be rash enough to shoot them before finding out who they were. To those who say that Legolas was needed to point out the crebain...You've been watching to much of the movie, I think. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Legolas slept while Aragorn saw the Crebain. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] [ September 20, 2002: Message edited by: Amarie ]

09-21-2002, 11:12 AM	#25
Nauruin Guest Posts: n/a	I think The Fellowship could do without Gimli. I think this because Gimli wasn't much help and when they went into Moria he didn't say anything about the lake monster.

09-21-2002, 03:27 PM	#26
VanimaEdhel Etheral Enchantress Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wellesley College! Posts: 1,461	I believe either Legolas or Gimli. Although their meeting showed us cute, little, funny bickering, and "warmed our hearts" when they became fast friends, the Fellowship would have lived without them. Gimli did absolutely nothing, and, even though Legolas shot the thing in the dark and shot the Warg, that's about it...even though he's my favorite character. __________________ "I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes

09-21-2002, 06:11 PM	#27
Eglaladiel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Rivendell... Posts: 55	wow! this is hard! i believe it was nine for a purpose! and who could do without Borimir? he did slay the orcs, and he was true at heart! well, all of them are important...well...we could hav went with out pip...then again...you need a little sunshine in cloudy weather! __________________ <3 -R.I.P. Padfoot (sniffle, sniffle)