Rohan and Lorien

[The Mouth of Sauron]

The men of Rohan at the time of the War of the Ring had a fair measure of fear and ignorance about Lorien.

But surely geography works against this ?

Any citizen of Rohan living in the Wold would be a lot closer to Lorien than they were to Edoras . With their close proximity to Lorien, would they not have had SOME dealings with the elves or at least have been aware of Galadriel's stance against Dol Guldur and Sauron ?

[Inziladun]

It doesn't seem there were any of the Rohirrim then living permanently in the Wold. Aragorn said , soon after departing Parth Galen:

The Rohirrim seldom come here, and it is far from Minas Tirith.

TT The Riders of Rohan

That while they were a good deal south of the Wold, and closer to Rohan proper.
The Rohirrim had certainly known of Lórien when they had dwelt in their previous homes in the Vales of Anduin. As they rode to the aid of Gondor with Eorl the Young at their head, they passed near it:

Many of the riders turned their heads thither, half in fear and half in hope to glimpse from afar the shimmer of the Dwimordene, the perilous land that in legends of their people was said to shine like gold in the springtime.

UT Ciron and Eorl

Even then, over 500 years before the events of The War of the Ring, their knowledge of Lórien was limited to myths and legends, despite their residing much closer to it then.
By the time of the War, they would have been even more wary of the Elves, even as the 'high' Men of the time, the Gondorians had become. Most of the Rohirrim likely believed the 'golden wood' story to be only that- a story. As for the rest, the higher and more learnéd among them, they would have had only fear and awe for the Elves, as evidenced by Éomer's reaction to Aragorn's mention of Lothlórien at their first meeting.

[The Mouth of Sauron]

Aragorn said that about the Emyn Muil, not the Wold

[BGreg]

Aragorn said that about the Emyn Muil, not the Wold

Yes, but later he was surprised to see no people or animals in Eastemnet; though he said they usually live far south. Here they used to have herds and paddocks, and shepards tended for them.

Sorry I don't have the exact quote, I just wanted to show that there weren't many people here even during the peacetime. Just a few shepards with their herds. Sleeping under tents. And the elves didn't exactly leave the forest so often. So I don't think Rohirrim ever saw a sign of the Galadhrim.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by The Mouth of Sauron

Aragorn said that about the Emyn Muil, not the Wold

Yes, but I alluded to that in my original comment. My point was that if there were settlements of the Rohirrim as near as the Wold, the possibility of them being responsible for the dead Orcs would not have been so quickly discounted by Aragorn.

As nightshade was closing about them, Aragorn halted. Only twice in the day's march had they rested for a brief while, and twelve leagues now lay between them and the eastern wall where they had stood at dawn.

TT The riders of Rohan

A league is generally considered to be about 3 miles, so by then they were approximately 36 miles from the brink of the Emyn Muil. That was daybreak of the day after they left Parth Galen.
On the third day of the pursuit, there is this quote:

Often Aragorn wondered that they saw no sign of beast or man. The dwellings of the Rohirrim were for the most part many leagues away to the South, under the wooded eaves of the White Mountains, now hidden in mist and cloud, yet the Horse-lords had formerly kept many herds and studs in the Eastemnet, this easterly region of their realm.

TT The Riders of Rohan

That's probably the quote you had in mind, BGreg. I believe you are correct.
Even there, far south of the Wold, the Rohirrim had no permanent settlements. Though the river Limlight was the northen boundary of Rohan, they don't appear to have ever had permanent residences in the Wold.

For the most part their settled dwellings were about the feet of the White Mountains and and in the glens and valleys of the south.

UT The Battles of the Fords of Isen

Again, no reference to any of the Rohirrim residing in the Wold.

[Rumil]

Hi all,

It does seem strange and uinlikely overall that there was no contact.

The reasons I think include the extreme insularity of the elves and the uneasy superstitousness of the Rohirrim, as has been said.

Also there is an aspect of differing ecological niche, the Rohirrim are set up for life on plains, horse-riding herdsmen. They are not really interested in the woods as there's no grazing, and may even be frightened of the woods as unfamiliar terrain. In many aspects they appear half-nomadic, not making permanent settlements except their strongholds at the foot of the White mountains. They used tents on the trip to Minas Tirith, like the Mongols and yurts perhaps? Therefore the North Western areas appear to have no permanent settlements, but are occasionally visited by the nomadic herdsmen and their herds.

Conversely the elves don't appear to have much in the way of horses and due to the 'embalming' nature that has been well discussed, are not much interested in venturing away from their forest.

Occasionally a curious Rohir would venure into Lothlorien, but either turned back or never re-appeared (mentioned somewhere in LoTR). How would this pan out? I think the lonely traveller (already rather jumpy due to the legends) would possibly be diverted out of Lothlorien by the landscape, like Frodo and co. in the Old Forest. Maybe they had an arrow strike the tree in front of them, I don't think the Elven wardens would kill them, but certainly frighten them off. Another possibility is the 'falling asleep trick' that the Mirkwood elves pulled on Bilbo et al. If, despite these, the Rohir persisted then the elves would seem to have accepted them, but Lothlorien is not a place for mortals, time is perceived differently etc. The Rohir might not leave at all, or only after many years, much like the legends of those that visit the faerie realms.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

And Rohanites, for all their undoubted virtues, were not noted
for farsighted diplomacy, witness their shortsighted
treatment of the Dunlanders (whose territory they
did occupy- reminiscent of American Indian and
aboiriginal history), especially since the people of
Dunland were alienated but were secure in the
borders near Rohan (somewhat the way Afghans have
reacted to repeated foreign incursions). Also the unwise,
if granted generally justified, treatment of Freca by Helm-which
contributed to Rohan's occupation.

Btw, in PJ's flawed TTT movie, I liked the bit of having Helm
Hammerhand's statue in the courtyard without specific
allusiion (rather like the trolls in the much better FOTR).

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rumil

Hi all,
Occasionally a curious Rohir would venure into Lothlorien, but either turned back or never re-appeared (mentioned somewhere in LoTR). How would this pan out? I think the lonely traveller (already rather jumpy due to the legends) would possibly be diverted out of Lothlorien by the landscape, like Frodo and co. in the Old Forest. Maybe they had an arrow strike the tree in front of them, I don't think the Elven wardens would kill them, but certainly frighten them off. Another possibility is the 'falling asleep trick' that the Mirkwood elves pulled on Bilbo et al. If, despite these, the Rohir persisted then the elves would seem to have accepted them, but Lothlorien is not a place for mortals, time is perceived differently etc. The Rohir might not leave at all, or only after many years, much like the legends of those that visit the faerie realms.

I just don't see many credible reasons for one of the Rohirrim to be in that area at all. They were said to "regard the eaves of Fangorn and the frowning walls of Isengard with dread", and they had no permanent habitations there; the only likely motivation for their presence in the Wold would be a military one, perhaps a mounted patrol here and there leading up to the War. And if Éomer's reaction to Aragorn's words was indicative of the ideas the Rohirrim had of Lórien, any of the soldiers who found themselves near it would have done all they could to avoid it.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I just don't see many credible reasons for one of the Rohirrim to be in that area at all. They were said to "regard the eaves of Fangorn and the frowning walls of Isengard with dread", and they had no permanent habitations there; the only likely motivation for their presence in the Wold would be a military one, perhaps a mounted patrol here and there leading up to the War. And if Éomer's reaction to Aragorn's words was indicative of the ideas the Rohirrim had of Lórien, any of the soldiers who found themselves near it would have done all they could to avoid it.

Inzil is, of course, correct. You must take the superstitious nature of the Rohirrim in context with the dark world of 3rd Age Middle-earth, where there was more than just 'sprites and bogies' overturning milk buckets. Orcs were harrying Rohan's borders and there were dragons lurking in the history of the Eotheod. The Rohirrim looked on Lorien with dread, and rightly so. There was indeed a supernatural and palpable otherworldy presence lurking in the Golden Wood.

[The Mouth of Sauron]

Widfara, who discerned the change of wind direction with a "sea-tang" just prior to the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, lived in the Wold.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by The Mouth of Sauron

Widfara, who discerned the change of wind direction with a "sea-tang" just prior to the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, lived in the Wold.

True indeed. Even so, other evidence would suggest he was in the minority by living so far north. Even if there was a small settlement in the Wold, the northern boundary of Rohan was the river Limlight. A cursory glance at the maps supplied with LOTR shows Lórien many miles to the north of that. What reason would any of the Rohirrim have for crossing that river and coming, even by accident, to Lórien? By the same token, is there any evidence the Lórien Elves ever wandered far enough out of the forest to have come into contact with the Men of Rohan?
All references I've seen point to the idea that the Rohirrim had almost no knowledge of Lórien or Galadriel, beyond far off myths and legends from who knows how many centuries back.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

And I would second the observation that, even had some Rohir had been so hardy or curious as to venture into the eaves of the Golden Wood, he wouldn't have been admitted. The Fellowship was only let in because they had reservations, so to speak, and were led by Aragorn.

This is not to say that the Elves would have shot an innocent Son of Eorl! It's hinted that Lorien was an echo of Doriath with its Girdle, and unwanted intruders would simply have been mazed and bewildered- no doubt this occurred from time to time, and contributed to the place's uncanny reputation.