The Straight Road

[Lalwendë]

I'm fascinated by The Straight Road. By what is it, what it means, what it symbolises, even by how to find it.

What exactly is it?

It seems that at the point Eru changed the world he broke it into two 'planes' of existence. Before, it was flat and it was possible to travel from Valinor to Middle-earth and vice versa, even if it was forbidden to Men to do so, and against their nature for Elves to return to Middle-earth. Afterwards, the earth was curved and if you set sail from Middle-earth's western shores you'd just eventually come back to the eastern ones (presumably a bit thirsty and as bonkers as the Ancient Mariner by then).

But not for the Elves. They could find the Straight Road and land in Valinor, and so, it seems, could those special enough to gain what seems to have been an actual title - Elf-friend.

What bugs me is whether they got there. We've no way of knowing. Am I alone in finding that Frodo's final journey has a double meaning? On one level you think it's fantastic that he's going off to this place where he can be healed. But on the other, you have a niggling worry about whether he ever got there. Yes, there is a description of him going there, but it's not logically possible for us to know that - given the translator conceit.

And then there's the question of How Does It Work? I always like to know how things work.

So, would a ship set sail and then suddenly hit a secret point known only to Elves/Ainur at which point it departs normal existence and enters another dimension/plane? Or is it that the ship would hit a point where it enters a kid of static world which is unchanging, almost like going through a wormhole? And does being able to find the Road depend upon knowing where it is? Upon being able to see it? Or upon having permission?

Your thoughts, please.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

And then there's the question of How Does It Work? I always like to know how things work.

So, would a ship set sail and then suddenly hit a secret point known only to Elves/Ainur at which point it departs normal existence and enters another dimension/plane? Or is it that the ship would hit a point where it enters a kid of static world which is unchanging, almost like going through a wormhole? And does being able to find the Road depend upon knowing where it is? Upon being able to see it? Or upon having permission?

Your thoughts, please.

Well, there are plenty of instances in classical literature of heroes passing to the netherworld, the underworld, Faerie, heaven or hell. There is Hercules' and Aeneas' journeys to Hades (Persephone's passage to Hades on a yearly basis presages the coming of winter), Arthur's final journey to Avalon, Ossian's dialogue with St. Patrick after returning from Hy Brasil, Thomas the Rhymer, and a host of Changelings stolen from their families and brought to Faerie.

I would say it would be dimensional and the door/passage is only availaible to a hero with the proper attributes (as it happens in Tolkien with Earendil, Frodo or Bilbo, as well as in Mallory --Galahad, the perfect knight, allowed to find the Sangreal), or by chance (mystic lands appearing at certain times of year), or by kidnapping by a denizen of the Netherworld with access to the passage (Hades kidnapping Persephone is an archetype), or by stepping into a Faery Ring or washed ashore on Faery (which abounds in Irish folklore such as Ossian's tale, and also reiterated in Irving's Rip Van Winkle).

[Nogrod]

Adding to the the wealthy examples by Morthoron, I'd say that in the simple plane it would be easy to just state there is a one-way traffic-line there. Whether someone from the Middle-Earth was approaching, who was not permitted the seas would just arise and prevent them from getting anywhere - and the same would go for any of the "blessed" who would try to to reach the M-E as there would be no admission without a special purpose (like Gandalf geting back wherever it was he was while "dead").

Originally Posted by Lal

Afterwards, the earth was curved and if you set sail from Middle-earth's western shores you'd just eventually come back to the eastern ones (presumably a bit thirsty and as bonkers as the Ancient Mariner by then).

That kind of brings to my mind the then (and now) hot debates over quantum physics, the possibilities of wormholes, the parallel universes, the curved universe with relation to the Einstein's speculations which Tolkien must have known...

The idea surely is an interesting one - and it has this "down to earth" -explanation available even if the physical science professionals wouldn't allow it - where the world actually goes around itself and gives you the the round globe; but on another plane the laws would be different and you only have access to them through those wormholes / parallel universes etc... And linking them with old myths about "moving to a different plane" would fit the mythologial structures of the worlds of every conceivable nation or tribe living up north about 1000 AD or before that...

Kind of a stuff Robert Holdstock used later?

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Letter 325 (just about the whole thing) says:

The ‘immortals’ who were permitted to leave Middle-earth and seek Aman. . .set sail in ships specially made and hallowed for this voyage, and steered due West towards the ancient site of those lands. They only set out after sundown; but if any keen-eyed observer from that shore had watched on of these ships he might have seen that it never became hull-down but dwindled only by distance until it vanished in the twilight: it followed the straight road to the true West and not the bent road of the earth’s surface. As it vanished it left the physical world. There was no return. The Elves who took this road and those few ‘mortals’ who by special grace went with them, had abandoned the ‘History of the world’ and could play no further part in it.

The angelic immortals (incarnate only at their own will), the Valar or regents under God, and other of the same order but less power and majesty (such as Olórin=Gandalf) needed no transport, unless they for a time remained incarnate, and they could, if allowed or commanded, return.

As for Frodo or other mortals, they could only dwell in Aman for a limited time – whether brief or long. The Valar had neither the power nor the right to confer ‘immortality’ upon them. Their sojourn was a ‘purgatory’, but one of peace and healing and they would eventually pass away (die at their own desire and of free will) to destinations of which the Elves knew nothing.

This general idea lies behind the events of The Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion, but it is not put forward as geologically or astronomically ‘true’; except that some special physical catastrophe is supposed to lie behind the legends and marked the first stage in the succession of Men to dominion of the world. But the legends are mainly of ‘Mannish’ origin blended with those of the Sindar (Grey-elves) and others who had never left Middle-earth.

From that description of the transit, it does sound, in science-fictional terms, like some kind of interdimensional shift, vanishing from the physical world of Arda to another plane of existence. It seems that if you don't have the right ship or don't have permission, you just keep sailing along in the water and remain on the earth. One does wonder how the passengers perceive that part of the transit where they leave the waters and continue straight on rather than following the curvature of the earth. It's interesting, I think, that the legends about it are written by people who never made the trip.

I have somehow always felt that Frodo reached Aman without incident -- possibly because he did dream of his arrival there long before he even knew it would ever happen, or what it was he saw in his dream, but also possibly because it felt like a classic heroic end. Not the attainment of an eternal paradise, but the bestowing of a reward, a sort of cosmic "even of the scales," to offset all he had suffered in struggling to achieve the onus that had been laid upon him. It seems to me that in most legends and myths, the end of the hero's journey is never wholly a "happily ever after" situation; either the "paradise" achieved is not perfect, or the road to it was so fraught with trials and tragedies, it could only be a bittersweet reward, at best.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

From that description of the transit, it does sound, in science-fictional terms, like some kind of interdimensional shift, vanishing from the physical world of Arda to another plane of existence. It seems that if you don't have the right ship or don't have permission, you just keep sailing along in the water and remain on the earth. One does wonder how the passengers perceive that part of the transit where they leave the waters and continue straight on rather than following the curvature of the earth. It's interesting, I think, that the legends about it are written by people who never made the trip.

In the classic mythological sense, attaining the shores of Faery (or Aman, Hy Brasil, Avalon, etc.) has its own sanctions, permissions and prohibitions (and seemingly, Tolkien subscribed to the classic fomulae). For instance, you can reach there with luck or permission, but you can usually never return; doing so will result in the breaking of a prohibition, and the sanction is usually something dreadful (Ossian, for instance, aged to the point of death while he was talking to St. Patrick, and poor old Rip Van Winkle also returned from his trip into the mountains so aged that every one he knew had died years before). Earendil was not allowed to return to Arda, save aboard his ship, which stayed aloft among the heavens, and the Numenoreans paid for breaking the prohibition against mortals setting foot in Aman with their lives.

As far as Frodo, his description of the silver curtain lifting to me infers passing through a portal into another plane of existence (he and Bilbo of course received permission, or intercession from Galadriel and Arwen).

[skip spence]

I also adore the straight road.

Originally Posted by Lal

So, would a ship set sail and then suddenly hit a secret point known only to Elves/Ainur at which point it departs normal existence and enters another dimension/plane? Or is it that the ship would hit a point where it enters a kid of static world which is unchanging, almost like going through a wormhole? And does being able to find the Road depend upon knowing where it is? Upon being able to see it? Or upon having permission?

You could picture the Straight Road like a bridge of water I guess, leaving the curvature of the earth and heading straight towards "heaven". But being rational-minded I see many problems with this analogy from a scientific viewpoint. In the letter Ibrin quoted, Tolkien wrote that a keen-eyed observer from shore would have noticed that a vessel heading towards the West never became hull-down, indicating that it was indeed on the Straight Road, and not following the curvature of the earth. But what if that keen-eyed observer were on look-out from a ship on a parallel course with the hallowed ship, far off but just within sight of it? Would he then observe the Elven ship slowly taking off and eventually heading off towards the firmament like Eärendil? What if they sailed towards it then? And what if a shrewd man unnoticed managed to tie a very long rope to the fin keel of a ship heading for Aman, and attach his small boat to it, thus being towed on to the Straight Road. Would this free passenger make it to the utmost West? But now I'm being silly. I suppose you can't see rationally upon something which essentially is miraculous.

I suppose the Straight road could be seen as a true road into a world unspoilt, the world as it was originally meant to be. And as the road is straight the old world must also be flat of course. That's funny, isn't it? Our round earth revolving around the sun is really a second best in Tolkien's mythology. In the good old days the world was flat as a pancake. Reading HoME X however, it seems Tolkien (for a while at least) wanted to represent this belief as a mannish misreading of the original Elvish sources and not a true account of history. It's a good thing nothing of this made it into the published Silmarillion though.

Originally Posted by Ibrin

One does wonder how the passengers perceive that part of the transit where they leave the waters and continue straight on rather than following the curvature of the earth. It's interesting, I think, that the legends about it are written by people who never made the trip.

I imagine that Frodo would would not have witnessed the ship leaving the water or a passage through a portal or anything of the kind. I just imagine it to have been a long sea journey without any direct point of transition, although I certainly imagine a gradual transition into a more fairie-like world, you know, with a Lórien-like shimmer to it. Eventually they would come within sight of the Tower of Avallone and know they were on the right course.

(must stop although I don't feel quite finished)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Talk about planes of existence is extremely interesting. The following thoughts occur to me now.

The blessed lands were not before on a different plane, and I don't think they became so. How can you remove part of the world (Valinor) to a different plane, and what does that mean? Physical removal? Surely that would completely rupture everything, with remarkable geological effects in both Middle-earth and Valinor.

I think that once a thing (e.g. land) is created for a particular plane it cannot later be attuned to a different one.

Intellects, though, can 'see' different planes. The Valar, I am sure, could experience separate modes of reality. This is perhaps touched upon with the Ringwraiths, and their being able to experience different 'worlds' -- which could be thought of as planes of existence.

I tend to think there was simply a magical trick played on the mariners: the gods of the sea, if you will, threw them off course; and they guided those permitted into the blessed realm. I don't think it was anything to do with separate planes, because separate planes, to me, imply substantial metaphysical alteration, and the idea of the blessed realm as becoming a sort of VIP club just seems more plausible.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

So what would happen if Galadriel, or some other who was permited to sail into the west, sailed towards Aman, not knowing that Merry had hidden on board?

Would they both be rejected, both be permited acces or would the boat snap in two.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

The blessed lands were not before on a different plane, and I don't think they became so. How can you remove part of the world (Valinor) to a different plane, and what does that mean? Physical removal? Surely that would completely rupture everything, with remarkable geological effects in both Middle-earth and Valinor.

And yet, that's exactly what happened. The story is, after all, a myth, and the myth is accounting for what previously appeared to be a "flat" world being reshaped into a globe (which Tolkien says in various letters and such is what was meant by "the world was bent" in the Akallabeth, and the effect was indeed catastrophic to both Arda and Aman). In the letter I quote above (which is not the only place he speaks of this), he does indeed say that he meant that during the events that resulted in the destruction of Numenor, Aman (Valinor and Eressea) was physically removed from the world. It is clear in his writings that he means ripped away from a direct physical connection with Arda (the earth) by not removed from existence within Ea (the universe as we know it). The elven ships, by his description, simply continue to sail in a perfectly straight and level line away from the earth's curve and then disappear, entering the West. At this point, basic science can no longer apply; we need to enter the realm of theoretical thinking, which by post-Einsteinian theory allows for the existence of multiple dimensions (or planes, in some parlance). If the ship remained within our dimension to travel to a place disconnected from Earth (like, say, the moon), it would then face problems with gravity, escape velocity, air, etc. Since this doesn't appear to be the case, and the ship is said to simply "disappear" rather than dwindle until it is no longer able to be seen by any naked eye, the extrapolation that it somehow shifts into another dimension of existence would appear to follow.

That's the way I saw it, anyway, for what it's worth.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Interesting post as usual, Ibrin. I have not read Tolkien's letters (I know, I know... ) and am just speculating about what makes sense to me. Whether the logic works, etc.

On that note, why bother with the curve? If the blessed realm was to become another plane or dimension, whatever you want to call it, why not just make it so where it stood? Surely it wouldn't matter to everyone else where it stood in their plane. They couldn't reach it anyway.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

On that note, why bother with the curve? If the blessed realm was to become another plane or dimension, whatever you want to call it, why not just make it so where it stood? Surely it wouldn't matter to everyone else where it stood in their plane. They couldn't reach it anyway.

Good question, and I surely don't know why. It's just the way Tolkien describes it. Perhaps he intended them to teleport to another planet rather than achieve interdimensional transit, and that's what happens at the moment the ship vanishes. He never does say. But what he does indicate it that they are leaving the world of Arda, for good, and going to another. There is no way back, except for the Ainur, because they can move disembodied. For the Istari to make the trip in real bodies represented one of the "exceptions" that Tolkien does admit pop up in these kinds of stories, and that particular exception was done with the approval of Eru. Having the ship leave the curvature of the Earth might have been a way of making the physical departure from Arda a real moment of detachment.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

Good question, and I surely don't know why. It's just the way Tolkien describes it. Perhaps he intended them to teleport to another planet rather than achieve interdimensional transit, and that's what happens at the moment the ship vanishes.

Which would explain why Vulcans have leaf-shaped ears. Spock is a Noldor!

[Guinevere]

Well, the closest description of the Straight Road is at the end of the Akallabeth:

Therefore the loremasters of Men said that a Straight Road must still be, for those that were permitted to find it. And they taught that, while the new world fell away, the old road and the path of the memory of the West still went on, as it were a mighty bridge invisible that passed through the air of breath and of flight (which were bent now as the world was bent), and traversed Ilmen which flesh unaided cannot endure, until it came to Tol Eressëa, the Lonely Isle, and maybe even beyond, to Valinor, where the Valar still dwell and watch the unfolding of the story of the world. And tales and rumours arose along the shores of the sea concerning mariners and men forlorn upon the water who, by some fate or grace or favour of the Valar, had entered in upon the Straight Way and seen the face of the world sink below them, and so had come to the lamplit quays of Avallónë, or verily to the last beaches on the margin of Aman, and there had looked upon the White Mountain, dreadful and beautiful, before they died.

But, as Ibrin mentions, these tales are told by humans who "never made the trip".
I think it's meant to be a mystery, intriguing and fascinating just because it can't be exactly explained.

[Eönwë]

How about a wormhole to some other planet somewhere in the universe?


edit: I actually quite like this idea- I'll go into it sometime.

[Lalwendë]

Cheers, Guin, saved me a job there as I wanted to talk about that quote

Therefore the loremasters of Men said that a Straight Road must still be, for those that were permitted to find it. And they taught that, while the new world fell away, the old road and the path of the memory of the West still went on, as it were a mighty bridge invisible that passed through the air of breath and of flight (which were bent now as the world was bent), and traversed Ilmen which flesh unaided cannot endure, until it came to Tol Eressëa,

As I said, you know me, I like to know how things work (Elves walking on custard and so forth...) and this gave me plenty of things to think about when I was rummaging through HoME the other night for more info.

Firstly there's that 'permitted'. OK so that might be something Men say happens, that someone or some thing 'permits' passage, and it might not actually happen that way. But if it does need 'permission' then who gives it and how?

And who can have that permission? Do ships sail out simply hoping to be granted it or do they get some kind of message?

Secondly there's the idea that the Road is a bridge which goes through the sky (very HDM...) and the real world falls away, so that Valinor is literally removed from the world. Therefore it isn't in 'the West', it's not even in the world itself.

Then finally there's this "flesh unaided cannot endure" line. Here I'm thinking around the issue wildly but bear with me.....The Elves, we know, can exist as a fea without a hroa, but Men cannot - though Sauron may have found a way with his Ringwraiths. Do Elves simply forgo their hroa as they pass the Straight Road, knowing they can have another once they get to the Halls of Mandos? The mortals we know for certain who travel the Straight Road at the end of the Third Age are all Ringbearers, and the Ring definitely has some effect on the hroa and either removes it or absorbs it or makes it disappear (however it does it, it definitely does do something to it). Does something about the Ringbearers and what they have experienced make it likely that the Straight Road works by doing something to fea/hroa?

Slightly mad, I know, but I have to examine why and how it works

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Then finally there's this "flesh unaided cannot endure" line. Here I'm thinking around the issue wildly but bear with me.....The Elves, we know, can exist as a fea without a hroa, but Men cannot - though Sauron may have found a way with his Ringwraiths. Do Elves simply forgo their hroa as they pass the Straight Road, knowing they can have another once they get to the Halls of Mandos? The mortals we know for certain who travel the Straight Road at the end of the Third Age are all Ringbearers, and the Ring definitely has some effect on the hroa and either removes it or absorbs it or makes it disappear (however it does it, it definitely does do something to it). Does something about the Ringbearers and what they have experienced make it likely that the Straight Road works by doing something to fea/hroa?

Slightly mad, I know, but I have to examine why and how it works

An intriguing theory, Lal, and perhaps the correct view -- if it weren't for Tolkien's insistence on muddying up the waters. For instance, there's that hint that Legolas and Gimli rowed their boat ashore (alleluia!), and made it to Aman. Of course, we aren't necessarily positive that they made it, but it seems the sentimental Tolkien adds these little nuances for the express purpose of assuring us that they did indeed arrive.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Hmm, by the description of Ilmaren, then, "flesh unaided" should probably not be able to survive there, either, given that the uttermost height of Taniquetil appears to pierce the habitable regions of the atmosphere. And yet, if I'm not mistaken, weren't some of the Elves invited to Ilmaren (most notably the instance when Manwe was trying to get Feanor to reconcile with his half-brothers)? If they could survive then, and if Earendil can survive his nightly passages in Vingilot, then I think we can find the fingers of the Valar at work, protecting the various incarnates in areas where they should not be able to survive. We are shown the moment of Frodo's arrival in Aman, and he does not appear to be a spirit; indeed from the description in LotR, he doesn't even appear to have noticed that the ship ever left water. We also know from a variety of places that the permission given for the Hobbits to reach the West came from the Valar through their remaining representative in ME, Gandalf. So it seems to me that we have two versions of such a journey being posited: one in the legends of Men, who appear to believe that the ship leaves the water and passes on into the air and the void, where the passengers must be protected by some greater power to survive until they arrive in the detached Aman; and another in which it seems that the ship simply passes through a "curtain" separating one world from the other, and the passengers never notice the moment of transit as anything more (this being more or less what is described at the end of LotR). The latter version may not be quite accurate either, since it is in Hobbit lore, and appears to be based on knowledge of Frodo's dream/vision in the house of Tom Bombadil; I would presume that the very last parts of the Book were written by Sam and perhaps Merry and Pippin, based on what Frodo revealed in what he himself wrote before he departed Middle-earth. The one thing that does appear to be rather consistent is that permission from the Valar is required for the ship to properly enter the Straight Road (that permission might be in the form of what Tolkien described as "hallowing," the process of which he never describes, though I imagine it is a ritual only the Elven shipbuilders know); lacking it, it would merely stay on the seas of earth.

What would happen to a stowaway... I suppose it would depend on whether or not the Valar were aware of his or her presence onboard. I suspect they would be; the fiasco of Numenor would probably have them on guard about such things. I would imagine such a ship would fail to enter the Straight Road, the crew and passengers would begin to wonder what was up, and a search would be made until the culprit was found and returned to ME. That presumes rather a lot, I suppose.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

An intriguing theory, Lal, and perhaps the correct view -- if it weren't for Tolkien's insistence on muddying up the waters. For instance, there's that hint that Legolas and Gimli rowed their boat ashore (alleluia!), and made it to Aman. Of course, we aren't necessarily positive that they made it, but it seems the sentimental Tolkien adds these little nuances for the express purpose of assuring us that they did indeed arrive.

Hmmm, wonder if Gimli ever made those jewels with Galadriel's hair encased in them and if he left them in Middle-earth? After all, her hair must have had something special about it or Feanor wouldn't have pestered her so much for some of it?

It's only Gimli who is the problem there, and as a Dwarf he'd be different yet again to a Man or Hobbit?

Actually, if Legolas and Gimli went over in a ship of their making, then it also was not something about the ships that could get you there, was it?

Originally Posted by Ibrin

I think we can find the fingers of the Valar at work, protecting the various incarnates in areas where they should not be able to survive. We are shown the moment of Frodo's arrival in Aman, and he does not appear to be a spirit; indeed from the description in LotR, he doesn't even appear to have noticed that the ship ever left water. We also know from a variety of places that the permission given for the Hobbits to reach the West came from the Valar through their remaining representative in ME, Gandalf.

Much as I hate to say it, yes, the Valar may well have had something to do with it all. And even more so considering their big mistake over Numenor and Eru's having to be called out of a nice long bath to intervene! You'd think he'd want them to keep a better eye on things, wouldn't you?

I hate to say it because I'd much rather find a more pleasingly 'scientific' explanation for the Straight Road

I've also been thinking about Light. In much the same way as a Prism can break a beam of light and split it into component colours, the 'rain curtain' makes me think of a singular Road belonging to the everyday world splitting into others at that point (a raindrop is also a prism), one of which leads to Valinor. It also makes me think of that other old fave topic of mine, Saruman's 'breaking of the Light' after which he becomes Saruman of Many Colours....and it makes me think of how the characters in HDM can see other cities through the Aurora Borealis, through a kind of 'broken light', as the Aurora is caused by particles from the Solar wind reacting with our own atmosphere....

There's a quote I found in a volume of HoME t'other night (I think it was in The Lost Road) about how via one of the Palantiri it was still possible to catch a glimpse of Valinor, which suggests it was not entirely removed from the world. And though I don't know nearly enough about it, I believe under some conditions, light refraction can make it so things over the horizon can actually be seen?

Interesting that those watching Frodo's ship leave, though, did not report a rain cloud, though the point about it not actually dipping over the horizon is one I'd not thought of and it's obviously at that point when it goes. Was it at sunset? I'l have to go and check that one....it might have bearings on the idea of 'broken light' being the factor....hmmm....

[Boromir88]

And then there's the question of How Does It Work? I always like to know how things work.~Lalwende

That's Saruman's thinking, and precisely why you're off the Straight Road.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

That's Saruman's thinking, and precisely why you're off the Straight Road.

I know, but isn't he brilliant? I always read about him wanting to know things and know how things work and how they can be improved and thought he was great.

I should imagine that of all the people in Middle-earth, Saruman might be the one who could tell you how the Straight Road works. I think that the designation of 'white' to the head of the order suggests that this 'colour' (or lack of colour or combination of all colours, depending on how you view 'white' as a symbol in Tolkien's world) is linked in some way to Valinor or beyond, to Eru.

Saruman!" he cried, and his voice grew in power and authority. "Behold, I am not Gandalf the Grey, whom you betrayed. I am Gandalf the White, who has returned from death. You have no colour now, and I cast you from the order and from the Council." He raised his hand, and spoke slowly in a clear cold voice. "Saruman your staff is broken." There was a crack, and the staff split asunder in Saruman's hand, and the head of it fell down at Gandalf's feet.

[mark12_30]

Would you rather know how it works, or cross it?

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Would you rather know how it works, or cross it?

Well, if we're talking about Valinor versus Middle-earth, I'd take M-E any day. I much prefer Hobbits to Elves, and there are promises of things like Dragons too in M-E. In that case I'd much rather know how it works, if I must decide whether to understand it or cross it - yes, I get the impression that you cannot have both

If however it was a Straight Road to Middle-earth then I might put my science books (these would be rubbish science books, going by my scant knowledge :P ) away and just feel it

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

I know, but isn't he brilliant? I always read about him wanting to know things and know how things work and how they can be improved and thought he was great.

I should imagine that of all the people in Middle-earth, Saruman might be the one who could tell you how the Straight Road works. I think that the designation of 'white' to the head of the order suggests that this 'colour' (or lack of colour or combination of all colours, depending on how you view 'white' as a symbol in Tolkien's world) is linked in some way to Valinor or beyond, to Eru.

Yes, Saruman would know such secrets; however, he seems the type that if you have to ask him, then you are not worth knowing, and certainly not worth being in his presence. He is a closed book.