At the entrance to the mines - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Kettle of fish · 08-31-2002, 12:27 AM

I've always wondered, if Moria was a dwarven stronghold, and with the general enmity between the elves and the dwarves - why did Gandalf have to say 'friend' in Elvish to open the doors. Shouldn't it have been in Dwarvish?

Davin · 08-31-2002, 12:43 AM

I've been thinking about that too. I thought they hated each other....so why use Elvish to write on their expensive and fancy stuff?

Estelyn Telcontar · 08-31-2002, 12:54 AM

Gandalf himself gives the answer to this question in FotR, A Journey in the Dark, when the fellowship arrives at the gate:

Quote:

Those were happier days, when there was still close friendship at times between folk of different race, even between Dwarves and Elves.

Part of the inscription on the door is:

Quote:

Celebrimbor of Hollin drew these signs.

Celebrimbor, being an Elf, did not know the Dwarven language, which was kept quite secret by the Dwarves. It is only logical that he wrote in his own, the Elven, language.

Davin · 08-31-2002, 12:59 AM

Thanks for telling me...I must have forgotten that Gandalf said that....

ork _huntr · 08-31-2002, 03:39 PM

what estelyn said is right. that and they don't hate hate each other it's really just a grudge from the bloody battle for the silmaril that they already got over. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

akhtene · 09-01-2002, 03:54 PM

The Dwarves kept their tongue secret from other races. So maybe they prefered to use elven words than to make known some of their own.

Then maybe this way to open the dooe was meant for guests who were elves. The hosts could have other way to open the lock.

Rose Cotton · 09-01-2002, 06:51 PM

Maybe it was a way of keeping people out. Not many orcs and things like that are going to be willing to speak in elvish. Also since dwarves are famous for hating elves you wouldn't think they'd use elvish for their doors. It's all trikery. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

(though it didn't work to well, did it)

[ September 01, 2002: Message edited by: Rose Cotton ]

Gimli Son Of Gloin · 09-01-2002, 07:55 PM

Even so if dwarves and elves likked each other, wouldn't the front door of the dwarves castle be in Dwarvish?(what do you call the Dwarf language?)

Orome · 09-01-2002, 09:00 PM

Basically the Elves of Eregion were really good friends with the dwarves of Moria. There is a bunch of info on it somewhere in the books i just cant remember where

Arie · 09-01-2002, 09:13 PM

I myself can't remember-and I've been thinking of that...

Gimli Son Of Gloin · 09-02-2002, 10:20 AM

So they were good friends, I'm not going to tell my best friend the number combination to the security keypad, and I"m sure you ain't either, it's the same thing.

Arwen Imladris · 09-02-2002, 10:38 AM

Quote:

So they were good friends, I'm not going to tell my best friend the number combination to the security keypad, and I"m sure you ain't either, it's the same thing.

But those were better days, Estelyn Telcontar already proved that. They didn't worry as much.

The Elves of Eregion probebly didn't want to go all the way around the mountain to get to the front door.

Quote:

Even so if dwarves and elves likked each other, wouldn't the front door of the dwarves castle be in Dwarvish?(what do you call the Dwarf language?)

It wasn't the front door it was the back door, I think.

Cúdae · 09-02-2002, 10:48 AM

To add to what someone already said about the Elves and the Dwarves being friendly at that time, the road going up to the Western door (was it western... I think so. heh heh), was from Hollin--where the Elves lived. Besides that, the doors usually stood open with sentries watching them just in case.
The Dwarves told no one their language and they did not write it on anything that might be seen by another race. So, logically, if the Dwarves would not tell their language and the Elves and Dwarves were friends, the writing on the door would be in the language of the Elves. Did what I just type make any sense? Heh heh... I lose myself sometimes.

Gimli Son Of Gloin · 09-03-2002, 12:06 AM

Back in the day would elves let dwarves into Lothlorien?

08-31-2002, 12:27 AM	#1
Kettle of fish Wight Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 114	At the entrance to the mines I've always wondered, if Moria was a dwarven stronghold, and with the general enmity between the elves and the dwarves - why did Gandalf have to say 'friend' in Elvish to open the doors. Shouldn't it have been in Dwarvish? __________________ The inimical is often more instructive than the benign. Between screams, try to pay attention.

08-31-2002, 12:43 AM	#2
Davin Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 166	I've been thinking about that too. I thought they hated each other....so why use Elvish to write on their expensive and fancy stuff? __________________ So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. »»The Telmena««

08-31-2002, 12:59 AM	#4
Davin Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 166	Thanks for telling me...I must have forgotten that Gandalf said that.... __________________ So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. »»The Telmena««

08-31-2002, 03:39 PM	#5
ork _huntr Pile O'Bones Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: if i knew i would tell you Posts: 12	what estelyn said is right. that and they don't hate hate each other it's really just a grudge from the bloody battle for the silmaril that they already got over. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] __________________ i can't take his money, i can't print my own money, i have to work for money,why don't i just die? oh.. so that's what that button does.

09-01-2002, 03:54 PM	#6
akhtene Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: stronghold of the North Posts: 390	The Dwarves kept their tongue secret from other races. So maybe they prefered to use elven words than to make known some of their own. Then maybe this way to open the dooe was meant for guests who were elves. The hosts could have other way to open the lock. __________________ Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока...

09-01-2002, 06:51 PM	#7
Rose Cotton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: A place worse then Mordor........School! Posts: 1,075	Maybe it was a way of keeping people out. Not many orcs and things like that are going to be willing to speak in elvish. Also since dwarves are famous for hating elves you wouldn't think they'd use elvish for their doors. It's all trikery. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] (though it didn't work to well, did it) [ September 01, 2002: Message edited by: Rose Cotton ] __________________ "There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?)

09-01-2002, 07:55 PM	#8
Gimli Son Of Gloin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Halls of Montezuma, and the Shores of Tripoli Posts: 495	Even so if dwarves and elves likked each other, wouldn't the front door of the dwarves castle be in Dwarvish?(what do you call the Dwarf language?) __________________ The Few, the Proud, the Marines.

09-01-2002, 09:00 PM	#9
Orome Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 195	Basically the Elves of Eregion were really good friends with the dwarves of Moria. There is a bunch of info on it somewhere in the books i just cant remember where

09-01-2002, 09:13 PM	#10
Arie Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fangorn Forest Posts: 50	I myself can't remember-and I've been thinking of that... __________________ "Don't tell me of facts, I never believe facts; you know Canning said nothing was so fallacious as facts, except figures."--Sydney Smith

09-02-2002, 10:20 AM	#11
Gimli Son Of Gloin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Halls of Montezuma, and the Shores of Tripoli Posts: 495	So they were good friends, I'm not going to tell my best friend the number combination to the security keypad, and I"m sure you ain't either, it's the same thing. __________________ The Few, the Proud, the Marines.

09-02-2002, 10:48 AM	#13
Cúdae Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 160	To add to what someone already said about the Elves and the Dwarves being friendly at that time, the road going up to the Western door (was it western... I think so. heh heh), was from Hollin--where the Elves lived. Besides that, the doors usually stood open with sentries watching them just in case. The Dwarves told no one their language and they did not write it on anything that might be seen by another race. So, logically, if the Dwarves would not tell their language and the Elves and Dwarves were friends, the writing on the door would be in the language of the Elves. Did what I just type make any sense? Heh heh... I lose myself sometimes. __________________ "And if you listen very hard/ The tune will come to you at last/ When all are one and one is all/ To be a rock and not to roll." --Led Zeppelin "Stairway to Heaven"

09-03-2002, 12:06 AM	#14
Gimli Son Of Gloin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Halls of Montezuma, and the Shores of Tripoli Posts: 495	Back in the day would elves let dwarves into Lothlorien? __________________ The Few, the Proud, the Marines.