Breaking News: CT discovers sensational new manuscript written by his father!

[skip spence]

That would be sweet, eh?

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

But if he did, which known but unfinished story would you prefer it to be, and why?

Here's a few suggestions (titles might be real, invented by me or a combination
of the two) - imagine a complete and fully realised novel of one of the following tales:

Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin (or alternately Of Maeglin and the Fall Of Gondolin)

The Tale of Beren & Luthien

(a fully realised) Children Of Hurin

Of the Slaying of the Trees and the Flight of the Noldor

The Akallabeth: the Drowning of Numenor

The Last Alliance and the Fall of Sauron

Of The Making of the Rings of Power and the Ruin of Eriador

Aldarion & Erendis: The Mariner's Wife

The New Shadow

Tar-Elmar

[Rumil]

How about-

The Journeys of Aragorn


which I hear the Prof wrote but was lost

[Folwren]

I'd like to hear about Bullroarer Took who invented golf and killed the great gobling at the same time.

[Sauron the White]

My choice would be a full length novel about Gondolin. As it is , its one of my favorite things Tolkien wrote. A full length treatment would be heaven.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

My choice would be a full length novel about Gondolin. As it is , its one of my favorite things Tolkien wrote. A full length treatment would be heaven.

Unfortunately, that will probably not be happening in our lifetimes.

[Galin]

Well, I think JRRT is meant, not someone else. Tough to say... ah Gondolin would be great indeed... but then so many other choices come to mind!

In any case I think 500 quatloos should be fined for the false thread title

[Morthoron]

Well, I should pay more attention (or disregard misleading thread titles ).

But The Fall of Gondolin would make a great manuscript. As an appendage, I would like an expanded character study of Eol, perhaps my favorite Elf in all the Silmarillion. In particular, I'd like to know more about the arcane power he wielded (enchanting Nan Elmoth with shadows and snares, and imbuing blades with malice, for instance). Was this a natural ability of all Teleri (for I would assume Eol would consider himself Teleri and not a Sindar), or were such abilities only partially inherent, in that only a few such Elves of that Eldar generation could summon such power (perhaps only the firstborn -- and it can be assumed Eol was a firstborn)?

[Macalaure]

A finished version of the Ruin of Doriath would be very nice. This is a chapter where, for a change, there is no heroism. All sides are led by greed, hatred, and weakness of character (ok, I guess you could make a case for Dior), and it just goes on and on until everything that is fought over is destroyed or lost. Grim.

A finished Lay of Leithian or Noldolante would manage to very much lighten up my heart, too.

[skip spence]

Of The Making of the Rings of Power and the Ruin of Eriador

I think this has the makings of a good drama although perhaps not a full sized novel.

A handsome and mysterious stranger arrives in Ost-in-Edhil as part of a small company, not claming nor denying to be part of an envoy sent from Aman. While Galadriel is openly suspicious of him, Celeborn takes a diplomatic standpoint, since the stranger, later revealed to be Sauron, quickly manages to befriend many of the Noldor with his slick talk and promises....

Ah yes, just imagine the scene when Celebrimbor, alone on the bridge in front of his gates, takes a last stand and challenges the victorious Sauron in a desperate attemt to protect the rings of power (perhaps also as a diversion to allow the three Elven rings to be brought to safety by secret paths). But his dear old friend Sauron (although still very much recognisable, he now looks slightly demonic and is no longer fair to look upon) would just laugh at him and his valiant challenge, and order the accompanying Uruks to take him alive and put him into slow torture... As Celebrimbor slays the first few attackers approaching him, Sauron's malicious laugh would just grow stronger and louder, and all of his Orcs would join in, while a burning Ost-in-Edil is looted and wrecked in the background...

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

In particular, I'd like to know more about the arcane power he wielded (enchanting Nan Elmoth with shadows and snares, and imbuing blades with malice, for instance). Was this a natural ability of all Teleri (for I would assume Eol would consider himself Teleri and not a Sindar), or were such abilities only partially inherent, in that only a few such Elves of that Eldar generation could summon such power (perhaps only the firstborn -- and it can be assumed Eol was a firstborn)?

I've always assumed that most Elves, or at least the more prominent ones, had certain arcane or 'magical' powers, although this isn't something Tolkien emphasised. Luthien certainly knew a fair bit about 'magic' and Felagund was a master of 'songs of power'. Feanor must also have used some extraordinary powers to create the silmarils, or else, why wouldn't he do it again? Galadriel's Mirror is another example. Even Thranduil's woodland-elves seemed to master some mindblowing tricks. In fact, Elven 'magic' was a thing even Sam had heard of and connected them with, although his sources probably weren't very reliable.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

In particular, I'd like to know more about the arcane power he wielded (enchanting Nan Elmoth with shadows and snares, and imbuing blades with malice, for instance). Was this a natural ability of all Teleri (for I would assume Eol would consider himself Teleri and not a Sindar), or were such abilities only partially inherent, in that only a few such Elves of that Eldar generation could summon such power (perhaps only the firstborn -- and it can be assumed Eol was a firstborn)?

Well, we don't get much detail about the firstborns, do we? LOTR is probably Tolkien's most detaield work and the only one we get there is Cirdan, and it doesn't mention magic in connection to him (We know from the Silm that he once had a Ring of Power and has constant communication with Ulmo, but neither of those is his own magic or power). The Noldor in Valinor definately had some sort of magic. After all, crafting gems? (not to mention silmarils). Galaddriel does. They probably each do in their own way, but as for a way to find out who has more? Maybe the important ones have more magic, or maybe their magic is talked about more because they are important, or maybe it is because they have more magic that they are imprtant, or maybe it goes down certain bloodlines, or maybe.... Well, I don't know.

Anyway, I will side with the same theme as Folwren and say that I would like to know more about hobbits in the days when they were adventurous, fighting people.

[Gordis]

I would be more than happy if someone published what they already have - all Marquette manuscripts, in whole, without any stupid edits like taking away letters denoting individual ringwraiths.

[Groin Redbeard]

Dwarves! Definately more about dwarves, we get a general grasp of their history but barely anything about their stories or great heroes. It's always bummed me out the way that Tolkien doesn't write about them that often and instead focuses on nasty elves!

[Aiwendil]

My first choice would be a full Lay of Earendil. Of all the 'great tales', this is the only one that never received any sort of a 'full' treatment. For 'Beren and Luthien' we have the Lay of Leithien; for Turin we have the Narn; for 'Tuor' we have the late 'Fall of Gondolin' fragment and the old Lost Tale; even for the Ruin of Doriath, we have 'Wanderings' and the old 'Tale of the Nauglafring'. For 'Earendil' we have only the terse report of the 'Quenta' and annalistic traditions and the tantalizing Lost Tales outlines.

A close second choice would be a continuation of 'The Wanderings of Hurin' to form a complete tale 'Of the Ruin of Doriath'.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by skip spence

I've always assumed that most Elves, or at least the more prominent ones, had certain arcane or 'magical' powers, although this isn't something Tolkien emphasised. Luthien certainly knew a fair bit about 'magic' and Felagund was a master of 'songs of power'. Feanor must also have used some extraordinary powers to create the silmarils, or else, why wouldn't he do it again? Galadriel's Mirror is another example. Even Thranduil's woodland-elves seemed to master some mindblowing tricks. In fact, Elven 'magic' was a thing even Sam had heard of and connected them with, although his sources probably weren't very reliable.

As half-Maia, I always discount Luthien in comparison to full-blooded Elves when it comes to arcane abilities (It's quite reasonable to believe she got the 'magic' gene from Momma, because Thingol really shows no aptitude for magic -- but he did set foot on Aman, however briefly). You then rattle off Finrod, Feanor and Galadriel, but don't we take it for granted that the Noldo who came from Aman are intrinsically more powerful than the Sindar or Moriquendi?

The closest Elves, comparably speaking of those you mentioned, to Eol the Teleri are the Silvan Elves of Thranduil that managed that clever vanishing trick whenever Thorin and company came near them in Mirkwood. But does this ability (and that vanishing trick is the only one I recall from the Silvans) really compare to Eol's power? Casting webs of enchantment and bewilderment throughout a forest, designing the impervious galvorn armor, and creating enchanted malevolent swords that can speak?

If we go strictly by his crafting ability, isn't Eol on par with the Noldor in that respect, even though Eol never set foot in Aman, nor had Aule or Mahtan as tutors? Eol trafficked with the Dwarves, and there were exquisite pieces crafted by Telchar of Nogrod, but that doesn't explain Eol's ability to imbue pieces with arcane abilities (again, which in every other case seems the sovereign domain of the Noldor).

My only theory is that Eol was a 'firstborn' and those Elves (which would include Cirdan I suppose) had some innate powers beyond that of your everyday Elf (because not every Noldo had such abilities; at least, very few whose craft stood the test of time).

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Of The Making of the Rings of Power and the Ruin of Eriador

I think this has the makings of a good drama although perhaps not a full sized novel.

I don't know, Skip... It's a story I think deserves to be told more fully– yet Celebrimbor is problematic as the hero. Can we really respect someone who would, clearly, have been such a hopeless Werewolf player?

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

My first choice would be a full Lay of Earendil. Of all the 'great tales', this is the only one that never received any sort of a 'full' treatment. For 'Beren and Luthien' we have the Lay of Leithien; for Turin we have the Narn; for 'Tuor' we have the late 'Fall of Gondolin' fragment and the old Lost Tale; even for the Ruin of Doriath, we have 'Wanderings' and the old 'Tale of the Nauglafring'. For 'Earendil' we have only the terse report of the 'Quenta' and annalistic traditions and the tantalizing Lost Tales outlines.

I agree with Aiwendil - it would definitely be great to see a full Lay of Eärendil. He's not only an intriguing character, but I've always been interested in his journeys. It feels there could be so much more to them, but they aren't really written about. Such a pity.

My other option would be the Fall of Gondolin. It has always been my favourite out of the Great Tales, and also the one with the least material. Lay of Leithian is best read in verse - I don't think it would make a very good novel; and we already have the Tale of the Children of Húrin. I would be interested both in the wanderings of Tuor and the story of Maeglin in a fuller extent - and the Fall of Gondolin could also continue nicely to the story of Eärendil.

Or then something about dwarves. A story which is located in Nogrod or Belegost, or Khazad-dûm. A story that gives more insight into normal dwarvish life, into dwarves themselves - not just how they are portrayed by other peoples. Wow.

A novel-size version of the Akallabêth would be lovely, too.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Or then something about dwarves. A story which is located in Nogrod or Belegost, or Khazad-dûm. A story that gives more insight into normal dwarvish life, into dwarves themselves - not just how they are portrayed by other peoples. Wow.

So what about the story of Balin in Moria? Something like a full-length copy of the Book of Mazarbul (or more, actually). I would have liked that. Or then, the horror novel "We dug too deep" concerning the first emergence of Durin's Bane and Durin's death. These are stories I would definitely have liked to see.

And, from others, also, as it has been mentioned, Aragorn's journeys, and also Gandalf's journeys. I would have liked to see, for one, what did he do in, let's say, Nurn. Because from all that's been said it looks like he was there at least once.

And then, I would like to read the battle of Dol Guldur. Maybe the most of all these things, and also more from the White Councils, which could surround the story. But this is also the right place to mention that I would have liked to read that from Tolkien, and I would certainly NOT wish *eyes color red* to see that, ever, in some braque movie. Who readest, understand...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

So what about the story of Balin in Moria? Something like a full-length copy of the Book of Mazarbul (or more, actually). I would have liked that. Or then, the horror novel "We dug too deep" concerning the first emergence of Durin's Bane and Durin's death. These are stories I would definitely have liked to see.

Oooh, yes. I was mainly thinking about the First Age when typing my post so I, err, forgot about those later things.
Or the story of Durin and the founding of Khazad-dûm. Now that would be a treat.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

As half-Maia, I always discount Luthien in comparison to full-blooded Elves when it comes to arcane abilities (It's quite reasonable to believe she got the 'magic' gene from Momma, because Thingol really shows no aptitude for magic -- but he did set foot on Aman, however briefly). You then rattle off Finrod, Feanor and Galadriel, but don't we take it for granted that the Noldo who came from Aman are intrinsically more powerful than the Sindar or Moriquendi?

The closest Elves, comparably speaking of those you mentioned, to Eol the Teleri are the Silvan Elves of Thranduil that managed that clever vanishing trick whenever Thorin and company came near them in Mirkwood. But does this ability (and that vanishing trick is the only one I recall from the Silvans) really compare to Eol's power? Casting webs of enchantment and bewilderment throughout a forest, designing the impervious galvorn armor, and creating enchanted malevolent swords that can speak?

If we go strictly by his crafting ability, isn't Eol on par with the Noldor in that respect, even though Eol never set foot in Aman, nor had Aule or Mahtan as tutors? Eol trafficked with the Dwarves, and there were exquisite pieces crafted by Telchar of Nogrod, but that doesn't explain Eol's ability to imbue pieces with arcane abilities (again, which in every other case seems the sovereign domain of the Noldor).

Guess what I'm trying to say is that all Elves had certain, how should I say, 'magical' abilities, although they would not use that term themselves, as they considered it perfectly natural. I also believe that many among them had a capacity to craft 'animated' objects, inbued with their spirit and intent, although I agree that this ability generally would be more developed among the Noldor who had lived in Aman under the tutelage of the Ainur.

Take for example the rather remarkable cloaks the Fellowship recieved in Lorien. When an amazed Pippin asked if they were magic cloaks, the Elves didn't really know what he meant:

...They are Elvish robes certainly, if that is what you mean. Leaf and branch, water and stone: they have the hue and beauty of all these things under the twilight of Lorien that we love; for we put the thought of all that we love into all that we make.

Although it could be argued that Galadriel had a hand in making there cloaks, I still think my point has some merit. And just because Thingol fex. doesn't use 'magic' within the tales, doesn't mean he was incapable of it.

Now Eöl was by all accounts a very talented Elf (not to mention a lady-killer of note) and his powers seemed to've surpassed most of the Teleri and even Noldor. Was this because he was a first-born? Could be, but that is of course impossible to know for sure.