Why destroy Laketown's bridge?

[skip spence]

But that's faulty logic my friend. People can be reasoned with (sometimes) but do occationally grab kids nonetheless.

[Nerwen]

Obviously, tourists would have to sign an indemnity waiver. Like this:

INDEMNITY/WAIVER

Acknowlegement of Risk and Release of Liability by Participants in respect of Tour Activities provided by Watcher Tours, Esgaroth.

The following waiver of all claims, release from all liability, assumption of all risks, agreement not to sue and other terms of agreement are entered into by me ( the “participant”) with and for the benefit of WATCHER TOURS, its owner(s), employees, volunteers, business operators and agents (the “Host”).

I the undersigned
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________

Having carefully read and understood this waiver before participating in Tour Activities, hereby declare:

1. I am aware that there are inherent dangers, hazards and risks ( “Risks” ) associated with Tour Activities ( “Tour Activities” ) and injuries resulting from the “Risks” are a common occurrence. I am aware that the “Risks” of “Tour Activities” mean those dangerous conditions which are an integral part of “Tour Activities”, including but not limited to:

A. The propensity of the Watcher to behave in ways thet may result in injury, harm or death to persons, other animals or objects;
B. The unpredictability of the Watcher’s reaction to such things as sounds, sudden movement, tremors, vibrations, unfamiliar objects, persons or other animals;
C. The inherent danger that the Watcher poses for persons, other animals and objects;
D. The potential for other participants and other persons to behave in a negligent manner that may contribute to injury to themselves or others (inc. casting stones into the water in the vicinity of the Watcher).

2. I freely accept and fully assume all responsibility for all “Risks” and possibilities of any or all personal injury, death, dismemberment, damage to property (inc. sliming of garments) or loss resulting from my participation in “Tour Activities”.

3. I agree to release and forever discharge WATCHER TOURS ( the "Host" ) from all liability for personal injury, death, dismemberment damage to
property, or loss resulting from my participation in “Tour Activities” due to any cause.

4. I agree that this waiver and all terms contained herein are governed exclusively and in all respects by the laws of the Town of Esgaroth in which the “Tour Activities” are provided by the “Host”. I hereby irrevocably submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of the Town of Esgaroth and I agree that no other court, whether of Men, Elves, Dwarves or Hobbits can exercise jurisdiction over the terms and claims referred to herein. Any litigation to enforce this waiver will be instituted in the Town of Esgaroth in which the “Tour Activities” are provided by the “Host”.

4. I confirm that I have reached the age of majority for my species.

THUS DONE AND SIGNED AT _______________ THIS_______________ DAY
OF_________________


______________________ _____________________ _____________________
PARTICIPANT ( Client ) PARTICIPANT ( observer ) HOST ( Witness )




I, the undersigned, (Full names)
__________________________________________________ ________________________________

In my capacity as parent/legal guardian* of the above participant, agree to the said minor participant taking part in Watcher Viewing, on the above mentioned dates and agree that the said minor shall be subject to the terms and conditions of this indemnity.

________________________________
PARENT/LEGAL GUARDIAN
(* Delete which is not applicable)

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by skip spence

But that's faulty logic my friend. People can be reasoned with (sometimes) but do occationally grab kids nonetheless.

not faulty logic at all, just a question of perspektive and definition. . .Anyays I can see on your location that you cannot be reasoned with

[alatar]

To segue back to the topic of the thread, while thinking about the Washer under the Bridge, I still think that Smaug wanted mostly to attack Laketown via the bridge. My argument turns on one item: Does Smaug know that he has a hole in his armoured belly?

What if he did know? Wouldn't he want to protect himself from attack from below? If he could march, or stomp, across the bridge, attack from below would be highly unlikely as there was no place for a Turin to stand as there is no understructure to the bridge. By collapsing the bridge, the Master forced Smaug to the air, which presented his Achilles heel, or belly, to attack (still however unlikely).

If he didn't know, well, I'm not sure that my argument falls down like so much bridgework, but it doesn't help it either.

[Bêthberry]

I wouldn't be surprised if fairly soon a flying skwerl decended upon this thread, one whose armour is made invincible by the calm reason and astute good sense of She Who Wields Them.

alatar's idea of the water monster immediately brought to mind some of the more mythic possibilities of this scene. We've been treating the event as a military operation with feats of engineering, but of course story telling isn't limited to historical referents.

This scene, this battle, this event is of mythological proportions. A marauding, vengeful, fire breathing, terrifying dragon--also known as a night scather in Beowulf-- is defeated by coming down off the Mountain and engaging in battle in a sacred centre, isolated from the rest of the world, surrounded by deep and dark waters which the dragon isn't too keen on.

The mythic centre must be approached hierarchially. Movement is from up, top, to a downwards spiral, defeat being final placement in the dark underworld, this time, the dark waters of the lake. The bridge, a liminal object which bridges life and death, periphery and centre, as in Ragnarok (where the mythic centre is heaven in that mythology), must be destroyed for the essential symbolic homology to be developed. In Norse mythology, the breaking of the bridge Bifrost signals the end of time. Here, it is the end of the dragon's time. Sometimes bridges are for crossing, sometimes they are for burning. The realms of the shore and of the town must be separated, the gap that had been closed must be re-opened for the significance on which the story depends.

After all, this entire story of the cup stolen from the treasure hoard and the vengeful dragon seeking retaliation comes from one of Tolkien's favourite poems, Beowulf. We would do well to remember some of Tolkien's own ideas about monsters before we reduce the story to simply a matter of how did the bridge collapse. Might as well ask how Brifrost crumbled.

oh, and, by the by, Smaug's tail was also profoundly dangerous.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Warning - skwerlz can find their way to Sweden and Denmark and to much farther locations if necessary. After all, their fearless leader (= princess) is located quite centrally in Germany!

Now that this thread has lightened up so much, perhaps we should tie it back down to earth with posts that have something to do with the actual topic. If I have time soon, I may split it for the enjoyment of those who would like to continue along the humorous line of thought.

Posts that are completely off-topic will be deleted without further notice.

[alatar]

"Throwing down" bridges seems to be a common human activity, it seems. Remember, after the Nazgul cross the Anduin at Osgiliath, Boromir and crew throw down that bridge (as he recounts during the Council of Elrond), the last bridge that was used to cross the river. How was this done? One would think that a city built with a river running through it would have substantial bridges between the two halves.

And yet they fell.

**And yet we know that this was folly as (1) Sauron wasn't really attacking at the time, just didn't have the money to pay the toll for all Nine Nazgul, and so feinting with a large force did the trick and (2) we all know about the sewer system that runs beneath the river, as shown by Peter Jackson, and so the bridgeless river was of little defense.

[Nazgûl-king]

Perhaps it was a common protocol when dealing with dragons to get rid of the bridge, after what happened at Nargothrond with Glaurung. Perhaps they just felt a little safer knowing that the dragon could not come at them from that way.

[Hot, crispy nice hobbit]

Amid shrieks and wailing and the shouts of men he came over them

Whoa, Sam, stop. Your legs are short, so stop and think! Why must the men of Lake Town chop down their path of escape?

Panic, I suppose...

"Sir! We're under attack from a flying dragon!" - Twitching guard.
"Down with da bridge! Down with da bridge!" - Screaming sergeant
"Its a Flying Dragon, Sir!" - Twitching guard
"Down with da Bridge! Down with da Bri..." - Screaming sergeant

[LadyBrooke]

*Timidly pokes head in*

Looking at the picutre of the one bridge, it seems to me there is one other solution that nobody has mentioned yet. The half closest to the town is very strong and thick looking, but as it gets closer to the shore it gradually becomes smaller. I live about 20 miles from one of the biggest rivers in the country, and there are several old bridges near here. When one of them became too run down to be useable instead of destroying the whole bridge (which would have been costly and dangerous due to the large pillars) they only destroyed the smaller end sections which kept anybody from driving onto it.

Assuming that the bridge in the picture is over a mile long, it seems to me that just destroying the end closest to the shore would have prevented Smaug from walking over it. Laketown might as well be an island if the first fifth of the bridge is missing.

*pulls head back quickly*

[Nazgûl-king]

It says in The Hobbit, that:

Amid shrieks and wailing and the shouts of Men he [Smaug] came over them, swept towards the bridges and was foiled! The bridge was gone, and his enemies were on an island in deep water - too deep and dark for his liking. If he plunged into it, a vapor and a steam would arise enough to cover all the land with a mist for days; but the lake was mightier then he, it would quench him before he could pass through.

So it seems to me from this that they destroyed the bridge to force the dragon in the air, denying him access to the bridge. Perhaps they hoped that they could knock him out of the sky into the water perhaps hoping that such a fall would be enough to harm the dragon.

[alatar]

Maybe the men of Laketown heard the voice of Ulmo in the waters around their town, and Ulmo knew that the dragon's weak spot was underneath, and as Laketown never sported underwater warriors with spear guns, knew that they'd better get that dragon up somewhere where its belly would become exposed.

"The dragon doth brawl until the Bridge doth fall..."

It's all prophetic.