MIddlearth, OZ and faithfulness

[Sauron the White]

I don't accept your initial definition or premise of the issue and you don't accept mine.

You do not accept it because you choose not to accept it out of faith or belief or just plain refusal without grounds. My premise is supported by fact and example that is beyond challenge to the facts. Both WIZARD OF OZ and LAWRENCE OF ARABIA are considered great films by a large group of experts including Top Ten ratings by the American Film Institute. Both, were hardly faithful to their source material and changed things tremendously. Despite that, they were successful and much beloved.

Can you disprove my premise with concrete examples showing us that there is a direct relationship between a films success and quality and its faithfulness to its source material? And please explain how examples such as OZ, LAWRENCE and even LOTR are exceptions to the rule.

Two or three examples do not a hardfast rule make. And, anyway, LoA and WoO demonstrate what Minghella called "cinematic heart".

But in the absence of any facts presented by you, I think they go a long way to establishing that rule.

I have no idea what cinematic heart means to anybody but the coiner of that phrase. Its akin to discussing the "spirit" of something. It may have some meaning to the person who uses that phrase, but it is hardly something which has universal meaning, application or is widely understood. It certainly sounds wonderful and I picture a crescendo of violins as the words are uttered. It sounds wonderfully romantic and certainly makes one all pink and glowey. But it means nothing to me.

I have given the specific examples of two great films that were not at all faithful to their source material. Despite that, they are much beloved and are considered great films of high quality. If you take the contrary position, that there is a relationship between a films success and quality when compared to how faithfully it follows its source material, please present your list of films and explain why my examples are exceptions to that rule.

You and anyone else are free to reject the Oscars, Bafta's, Golden Globes or any other award bestowed upon a film. That is your right.

You and anyone else are free to reject box office revenue numbers as evidence of a films success and polularity. That is your right.

You and anyone else are free to reject the overwhelming opinion of professional film critics who highly praise a film. That is your right.

But those are the accepted standards of measurement by which the film industry measures its own product. The people who make film, who live by film, and who understand film best, use these scales of measurement. Faithfulness, whatever that gossamer term may mean to whoever wishes to use it, means little to nothing to a films success or quality.

Like what you want for whatever reasons you want to like it. That is fine.