the third book - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

01-02-2003, 10:40 AM

i cnt belive that frodo, gandalf elrond and lots of other people leave for the grey heavens.

Marsyas · 01-02-2003, 10:42 AM

Why not? Don't you think it is a just 'reward' for the ringbearers and those who helped?

01-02-2003, 10:45 AM

no its soo stupid, i just cant believe tat he leaves

dragoneyes · 01-02-2003, 10:48 AM

It's virtually the same as them dying, and yet you woldn't be so outraged if they died (yes, I realise some of them are immortal). That's how I think of it, except you KNOW they're going to a better place.

engwaalphiel · 01-02-2003, 11:29 AM

There is nothing wrong with their passage.
It makes great sense that after Frodo's journey and the permanent scars he has that he leaves at the grey-havens.
As well as it making great sense it is such a tearful ending.
Think about it , when pippin and merry turn up to say goodbye when frodo almost gave him the slip again and the last line spoken by Samafter returning home (one of the most powerful lines in the book and a well known quote)

Quote:

I'm back

i think i'll leave it with that.

Arwen Imladris · 01-02-2003, 12:52 PM

Quote:

It's virtually the same as them dying

Not really, read the Silmarillion. Elves don't die, Frodo was going there to be healed of all of his wounds.

Manwe Sulimo · 01-02-2003, 04:11 PM

Psst...that's the sixth book.

Arwen_Evenstar · 01-02-2003, 04:55 PM

Well when Frodo was in the shire after the war of The Ring he was always sort of depressed, he got sick when october the sixth came around every year, etc. But by going to the Grey Havens and sailing to Valinor all of his emotional wounds will be healed as well as his physical ones.
Have a nice day! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Gorwingel · 01-02-2003, 05:10 PM

The dissapointment about the ending is understandable, when I first read it, I thought they were all going to live happily ever after. I was kind of like Sam, I wanted Frodo to stay and live in the Shire, but he just could not. Don't worry though, he went to a better place. (and now I enjoy the ending because it is different)

Barodir · 01-02-2003, 05:39 PM

God, I hope they leave the Grey Havens part in the movie, it'd be the only ending to get me to cry. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

[ January 02, 2003: Message edited by: Barodir ]

dragoneyes · 01-02-2003, 06:35 PM

Quote:

It's virtually the same as them dying

Not really, read the Silmarillion. Elves don't die, Frodo was going there to be healed of all of his wounds.

But to the people staying middle earth, they'll never see them again, all they have left is the memory of them, yep, sounds like dying to me. Thats more what I meant.

[ January 02, 2003: Message edited by: dragoneyes ]

Legolas · 01-02-2003, 06:36 PM

The important part is that the people of Middle-earth get to live happily ever after - Frodo/Sam's quest was a sacrifice. Also, with the burden of the Ring on their minds, they found peace and spiritual healing in the Undying Lands - they wouldn't have found that in the Shire. It was the happiest possible ending, given the last effects of the Ring on those who bear it.

LePetitChoux · 01-03-2003, 10:08 AM

I always consider "Going over the Sea" a metaphor for dying, so I agree with dragoneyes.
I think that it is the best possible ending, bacause in a way it is a "happily ever after", but it also makes you think right at the end, as LotR is full of Food for Thought (is that the correct expression?), and if it finished by everyone staying in Middle-Earth I for one would be disappointed, as it would be what I expected and the great thing about it is that you can seldom tell what is going to happen next, but in no book should you be able to predict the ending, as it kind of spoils it in my opinion.
There, I'm done with my ranting.

Welcome to the downs by the way!

Arien · 01-03-2003, 10:29 AM

By the way everyone who is worring whether the Grey Havens is in RotK.......Well it is, here is an extract from the Daily Mail, TTT special:

Quote:

Jackson has already earmarked the films final scene, which takes place amid the sweeping landscape of the Grey Havens, and is his favourite. "To me, it's a culmination of the entire story; it represents what is to give and what is to lose," he says,"That scene is probably the most powerful part of the entire film."

So there you go.... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ January 03, 2003: Message edited by: Arien ]

Merri · 01-03-2003, 10:50 AM

Quote:

no its soo stupid, i just cant believe tat he leaves

Well, in my opinion, it's not stupid at all, but I suppose it is stupid, if you don't want to think about anything.

I'm just echoing what other people have said in saying that I believe the Gray Havens was a metaphor for dying, and the Heaven we know now. I think it's a great way to end the story- it's the kind of ending that makes you go Wow, that was a good story, sit back in your chair, and smile.

Finiel · 01-03-2003, 09:56 PM

Frodo's going to the Grey Havens thing was good for him because its the only place he could find peace from everything that happened to him.
And from a mortal's point of view, going to the undying lands and never coming back is just like a funeral march. I mean Tolkien could have given them wings to go to the Havens but he wanted LOTR to have a feel of the middle-ages theme. Remember when the people in the middle-ages put the dead in a boat and let it float into the sea or river (like Boromir)?
sorry if i got side-tracked from the topic. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Melime · 01-03-2003, 10:31 PM

I will admit that when I first read the books when I reached the end I sat back with the whole 'What?! That's IT?! attitude. However after I read through the book a second time I reliezed that the ending was just the way it should be, despite the fact that it left me a bit teary eyed. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

01-02-2003, 10:40 AM	#1
Legolas_Girl Guest Posts: n/a	the third book i cnt belive that frodo, gandalf elrond and lots of other people leave for the grey heavens.

01-02-2003, 10:42 AM	#2
Marsyas Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Rohandemar Posts: 38	Why not? Don't you think it is a just 'reward' for the ringbearers and those who helped? __________________ ~Marsyas~ ~Niere~ Some find strength in numbers, I find strength in solitude.

01-02-2003, 10:48 AM	#4
dragoneyes Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Completely lost track, sorry! Posts: 733	It's virtually the same as them dying, and yet you woldn't be so outraged if they died (yes, I realise some of them are immortal). That's how I think of it, except you KNOW they're going to a better place. __________________ "We might succeed in roasting Pippin alive inside." - Frodo.

01-02-2003, 04:11 PM	#7
Manwe Sulimo Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor Posts: 553	Psst...that's the sixth book. __________________ "Monkeys learn sign language so they can tell the dolphins they love them."

01-02-2003, 04:55 PM	#8
Arwen_Evenstar Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Rivendell Posts: 206	Well when Frodo was in the shire after the war of The Ring he was always sort of depressed, he got sick when october the sixth came around every year, etc. But by going to the Grey Havens and sailing to Valinor all of his emotional wounds will be healed as well as his physical ones. Have a nice day! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ 'I am Agarwaen, Son of Úmarth...'-Túrin Turambar. Arwen_Evenstar

01-02-2003, 10:45 AM	#3
Legolas_Girl Guest Posts: n/a	no its soo stupid, i just cant believe tat he leaves

01-02-2003, 05:10 PM	#9
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	The dissapointment about the ending is understandable, when I first read it, I thought they were all going to live happily ever after. I was kind of like Sam, I wanted Frodo to stay and live in the Shire, but he just could not. Don't worry though, he went to a better place. (and now I enjoy the ending because it is different) __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

01-02-2003, 05:39 PM	#10
Barodir Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Minas Tirith (err...New Jersey) Posts: 46	God, I hope they leave the Grey Havens part in the movie, it'd be the only ending to get me to cry. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [ January 02, 2003: Message edited by: Barodir ] __________________ " If you don't let me in Frodo, I shall blow your door right down your hole and out through the hill." -Gandalf

01-02-2003, 06:36 PM	#12
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	The important part is that the people of Middle-earth get to live happily ever after - Frodo/Sam's quest was a sacrifice. Also, with the burden of the Ring on their minds, they found peace and spiritual healing in the Undying Lands - they wouldn't have found that in the Shire. It was the happiest possible ending, given the last effects of the Ring on those who bear it. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

01-03-2003, 10:08 AM	#13
LePetitChoux Vegetable of Doom Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: London Posts: 720	I always consider "Going over the Sea" a metaphor for dying, so I agree with dragoneyes. I think that it is the best possible ending, bacause in a way it is a "happily ever after", but it also makes you think right at the end, as LotR is full of Food for Thought (is that the correct expression?), and if it finished by everyone staying in Middle-Earth I for one would be disappointed, as it would be what I expected and the great thing about it is that you can seldom tell what is going to happen next, but in no book should you be able to predict the ending, as it kind of spoils it in my opinion. There, I'm done with my ranting. Welcome to the downs by the way! __________________ je suis une bonne odeur

01-03-2003, 09:56 PM	#16
Finiel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: somewhere in the tropics Posts: 69	Frodo's going to the Grey Havens thing was good for him because its the only place he could find peace from everything that happened to him. And from a mortal's point of view, going to the undying lands and never coming back is just like a funeral march. I mean Tolkien could have given them wings to go to the Havens but he wanted LOTR to have a feel of the middle-ages theme. Remember when the people in the middle-ages put the dead in a boat and let it float into the sea or river (like Boromir)? sorry if i got side-tracked from the topic. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ "The night has a thousand eyes, And the day but one; Yet the light of a bright world dies when day is done. The mind has a thousand eyes, And the heart but one; Yet the light of a whole life dies when love is done."-- F.W. Bourdillon

01-03-2003, 10:31 PM	#17
Melime Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Pennsylvania... Posts: 19	I will admit that when I first read the books when I reached the end I sat back with the whole 'What?! That's IT?! attitude. However after I read through the book a second time I reliezed that the ending was just the way it should be, despite the fact that it left me a bit teary eyed. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]