The Withywindle Willow - Wight War Wager

[alatar]

At the Downs, seems that a recent fad has been to pit one powerful being in Middle Earth against another, and then to discuss the possibilities of the outcome of such an epic, yet hypothetical battle. We've had the Balrog vs Witch-King, Arwen vs Galadriel, southern winged Balrogs vs the wingless northern hairy variety, and Lobelia Sackville-Baggins circa 2942 vs Rose Cotton smackdown. A contest that's clearly absent and of seemingly more interest, at least to me, all sprung from my rereading of The Old Forest and The House of Tom Bombadil chapters in The Fellowship of the Rings. Therein, when the four hobbits - Merry, Pippin, Sam and Frodo - enter the Old Forest, we learn that there are two places that they wish to avoid. The first is the Barrow Downs, adobe of the Barrow Wight - theirs, not ours - as well as the valley of the Withywindle. Merry, our tour guide, says that the Withywindle flows out from the Downs down on through the Old Forest - the queerest part - and later we learn that this where Old Man Willow rests his roots.

The hobbits are steered off their intended path and down into the valley by Old Man Willow. Seemingly this tree commands/controls all of the other trees from the very edge of the Forest, and so by root and branch forces the Hobbits down into his lair. He then traps two and almost drowns one.

Later, after a brief respite at the House of Tom and Goldberry, the hobbits are then ensnared by the Barrow Wight. It catches them with mists and fear and so knocks them out. After stealing the hobbits clothes - a peculiar proclivity for a malignant spirit, possibly a leftover from its college days - the Wight arrays them with jewels and finery then tries to kill at least three of them with a sword.

***

So what would happen if we dropped hobbits somewhere between the two, Willow and Wight? Which would win?

First, a little more on our opponents:


Old Man Willow:

• Pros: A mighty singer, green with a black heart, can influence and control trees and little folk at a distance. Methods of dispatching little folk range from drowning, squeezing/constriction, bisection and suffocation.

• Cons: Stationary, has no effect on pack animals, harmed by fire and axes, requires a source of water, impeded by shrubbery, and is very very very old.

The Barrow Wight:

• Pros: Mobile, uses fear to confuse and paralyze victims, makes clothing completely disappear (humiliation?), can kill with bladed weapons and also (possibly) acute tickling.

• Cons: Can be detected by ponies, harmed by sunlight, might be a little too caught up in ritual, may have issues with its Angmar boss, as it is noted that certain ancient weapon artifacts are left around to be conveniently found.

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So hears the wager: Assume we have five sets of four hobbits, much like our four in the Fellowship of the Ring, who enter the Old Forest equidistant between Old Man Willow and the Barrow Downs. These hobbits, in each set, are no more or less knowledgeable than any other, and do not know what happens to those that precede them. Each hobbit rides a pony. Each set will be alone in the Old Forest until it finishes getting out the other side, or out of the Downs - or is finished. Two sets will be started during the morning, two in the evening, and one in midafternoon.

No hobbit will have a magic ring.

In the end, of the twenty hobbits that enter the Old Forest, how many will the Wight win, and how many would wind up with Old Man Willow**?


I’m better two coppers on the Old Man Willow will capture more that 11 (a simple majority), if not more. Why? I’ll explain my reasoning later.


**Note that Tom Bombadil has been placed on retainer and so will secretly be on hand to keep any hobbit from meeting its demise. After the tests, all twenty will spend three days/two nights - all expenses paid - at the House of Tom and Goldberry, where they will be healed of mind and body, debriefed and sent back to Crickhollow, hopefully much the wiser.

[Thenamir]

Old Man Willow is capable of exerting his influence over a wide ranging area, encompassing virtually all of the Old Forest. It seems to me that it would matter little that the Wight can terrorize their minds, as long as the Willow can direct the paths of their physical forms.

Much will ride on just how far the Wight can range from his home barrow -- in the books he seems to be rather restricted. Perhaps if the wight could approach them on the edges of the Old Forest, where OMW's influence is weakest, he might direct them somehow into his territory. Still, if it's a bet, I'd say OMW would capture 16 to 20 out of 20.

[Galendor]

Originally Posted by alatar

Two sets will be started during the morning, two in the evening, and one in midafternoon.

Since Old Man Willow is older and meaner than the Barrow Wight, I predict he would get the majority of the hobbits. Specifically, OMW would get all of the hobbits that enter the staging grounds during daylight hours (the morning or mid afternoon), which equals 12 hobbits. Because during the day, OMW is more effective than the Barrow Wight. That is when Old Man Willow is undergoing photosynthesis, making the energy he needs for hobbit-catching from sunlight.

Since the Barrow Wight is harmed by sunlight, he has to wait until night to go hobbit hunting. He might get the hobbits that enter the staging grounds at night (= 8 hobbits), and any stragglers that might somehow have gotten free from OMW during the day (these are likely wounded and easy pickings). At night, OMW is undergoing respiration and is probably less active (like any plant).

I guess the Barrow Wight is kind of like a clown fish and Old Man Willow is the anemone, the Barrow Wight gets the scraps left over by OMW. But it is enough to keep him in a regular supply of stragglers to unclothe, dress-up, and lay a sword across.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

OMW will defenently win this, he has a wider range and so forth, but the BW did catch Merry, Pippin, Sam and Frodo in the daylight, did he not? By lulling them asleep, so the BW can catch hobbits in the daylight!

[mormegil]

At first I thought we were pitting OMW against the B-W which would of course have the B-W out on top. But in this scenario I would place my money, the little I have, on OMW. The simple reason being that it is by him that the hobbits must first path and hobbits being notoriously dim witted about such things will all fall under his spell. There may be 2 or 3 that escape only to be found by the B-W.

[alatar]

First off, thank you for your replies. The thread hasn't gotten the response that the Gandalf vs the Witch-King thread has, but more than I thought. And, okay, I admit that the whole idea was predicated on the use of the W character, found in just too many places within the 'Old Forest' chapter to be a coincidence.

That all said, I have to admit to thinking about the issue much more since the initial idea. My wager now is that Old Man Willow would claim all 20 hobbits. Here's why:

• The hobbits have never heard of OMW, and so have not even the sense to fear it. They have heard of Wights, and so have a natural fear of these undead creatures.

• OMW looks like any other willow; the Downs are a special place.

• The willow tree has compatriots - the entire forest conspires against the hobbits to a greater of lesser extent. If the hobbits are within the Old Forest, they are already within the net, and it's just a matter of time before they are drawn down to the Withywindle.

• The Barrow Wight exudes fear. Sheep even have the sense to avoid the Downs (if only something would repel Spammers ). So, given any choice, the hobbits will choose entering the Old Forest over traveling over the Downs. The closer they get to the Downs, the more afraid they become and the more they want to flee.

• With the exception of Sam, all of the hobbits freely sacrifice themselves to the Old Man Willow. If Sam wouldn't have been so sensible, the story would have ended there. In the barrow, Frodo wants to flee, and even considers leaving his friends behind to do so. So it is possible that the hobbits could be caught by either, but some could escape the Wight (only to be caught by OMW).

• The hobbits are caught by the Barrow Wight due to specific conditions. They are caught napping (why they needed rest is anyone's idea) and so get lost in fog. Without stopping, and without the fog, would they have been caught? I'd also note that they rested on the east side of the stone, and nothing good ever comes from the East. Would they have overslept had they chosen a different side (north, south or west)?

So there it is then. For me, Old Man Willow takes all; on that I'll wager.