Middle Earth Fantasy Football World Cup

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Sleepy

Of course, trades have been open since when the competiton began.

It occurs to me that, during the Group rounds, trades should only be permitted at the end of each round of matches. Otherwise a team could score points from one player, transfer him or her out, and go on to score points from another player in the same position in the same round.

Or is that the idea ...?

[Nogrod]

I guess the idea was that during the round-robins one could change any player up to 10 trades whenever one wished.

But after that stricter rules would apply.

So one wouldn't be wise in changing half of her/his squad after every game as s/he might then face a situation where the ten changes are used up and half of the teams one's players are collected from have dropped from the competition...

[Nogrod]

To think it again... ten changes surely is a lot and would allow that kind of "un-sportsmanlike" behaviour.

Happily no one has gone in to that this far...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

... s/he might then face a situation where the ten changes are used up and half of the teams one's players are collected from have dropped from the competition ...

Which raises an important question. Are the ten trades valid until the start of the first matches of the knock-out rounds? In other words, do we still have the ten trades (or whatver is left of them) to transfer players in and out after we know who has qualified and who hasn't, or are we then restricted to the two each round?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

do we still have the ten trades (or whatver is left of them) to transfer players in and out after we know who has qualified and who hasn't, or are we then restricted to the two each round?

How I see it: you have ten changes during the Group rounds. You may change ten players during that phase and if you don't, all these "unused" changes will be lost.

At the knock-out phase there will be different rules.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

How I see it: you have ten changes during the Group rounds. You may change ten players during that phase and if you don't, all these "unused" changes will be lost.

I suspect that you are right.

I foresee a flurry of transfer activity shortly ...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

after we know who has qualified and who hasn't

But this is important... Surely we shouldn't be required to make our final changes before the last matches of the round-robins! That would mean that with all the teams who have already played two matches the trading window would be closing in a day or two - and we wouldn't even know which as the fixtures have not be given to us in advance!

So changes (those that go within the ten for the Group-stage) must be allowed after the last result of the round-robins are played... At least they should be...

Surely they should be made before the knock-out phase begins...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But this is important... Surely we shouldn't be required to make our final changes before the last matches of the round-robins!

Why not? Once each team has played two matches, it should be possible to predict with relative certainty who will progress and who will not (some teams will already have qualified). And, while (for some teams) there is no absolute certainty, it adds an additional element of skill.

[Nogrod]

A good question... and a reasonable answer.

But I would surely like to know the official answer before any of the teams plays their third match...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by the rules by Arcticstorm

5. During the knock-out rounds each manager will receive two trades for each round.

Having only two trades per every knock-out round would kind of call for us knowing the structure of the knock-out rounds as well - and if the deadline is before the third match then we should know them pretty soon as during this round-robin -phase we can afford to make any changes necessary...

So is it:
A1-H2
H1-A2
B1-G2
G1-B2
C1-F2
F1-C2
D1-E2
E1-D2

Or something completely different?

The knowledge of that might influence heavily on the choises we make at this point...

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by SPM

It occurs to me that, during the Group rounds, trades should only be permitted at the end of each round of matches. Otherwise a team could score points from one player, transfer him or her out, and go on to score points from another player in the same position in the same round.

No, that would be cheating. The rules say-

4. Each manager will receive a total of ten trades to be used during the round robin rounds.
These trades will officially take place after each individual round.

In other words, you can't make a trade now. Your trade had to be announced before Sleepy posted the results of the first games in the second round.

[Sleepy Ranger]

There's been a bit of a misinterpration methinks. To clear everything up and answer all your questions:

1) You may trade whenever you wish to, however if your trade takes place while I am posting the match reports it will not be held valid and you will recieve points for the player you had prior.

2) Once the final matches are played you will not be allowed to make any more trades. For convenience sake all the matches of the final round will be listed at once. As per the actual World Cup the final matches for a group would be played together.

3) You're more than welcome to keep switching players but you'll be shocked to find how fast 10 trades wear out. The system is based of an actual World Cup fantasy game and uh... I thought I'd be able to switch players in and out at fancy but yeah, 10 trades wear out way too fast.

4) If there are any unused trades at the end of the group stages they do not carry over to the knock out stages.

5) Yes Nogrod, your assumption is correct. That is how the seedings for the knockout stages will be done.

Good luck!

[Thenamir]

After pfutzing around in the middle of the pack, I am looking to make several trades. I have not been following as closely as I ought, perhaps, but I wanted to be sure that making a set of trades now would not be out of order. Thanks!

[the phantom]

Okay, let's make sure I have this straight. We must set our eleven in stone before the first match of round 3, because all the matches will be at once (ie there can be no trading between games, thus no one can receive points from more than 11 players during the round).

And after round 3 is finished and the knock-out bracket is announced, we will be allowed two trades before the eight first round games.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Okay, let's make sure I have this straight. We must set our eleven in stone before the first match of round 3, because all the matches will be at once (ie there can be no trading between games, thus no one can receive points from more than 11 players during the round).

And after round 3 is finished and the knock-out bracket is announced, we will be allowed two trades before the eight first round games.

There are three rounds to go technically. One set tomorrow, another day after and the final on the day after that. So yeah, your team must be complete by the third day.

[Thenamir]

Well, I'm making a pretty much wholesale change of the midfielders and forwards. Though my team is still in the middle of the pack, I've been disappointed with the overall performance of everyone except the Watcher In The Water. So I'm making six changes, saving a few just in case someone really falls apart.

Players OUT
MF--Gandalf (Lothlorien)
MF--Sam (Shire)
MF--Legolas (Mirkwood)
MF--Quickbeam (Fangorn)

FW--Frodo (Tol Eressea)
FW--Tulkas (Valinor)

Players IN
MF--Maedhros (Tuna)
MF--The Phantom (Barrow-Downs)
MF--Dwalin (Misty Mountains)
MF--Miller (Ham)

FW--Mormegil (Nargothrond)
FW--Saucepan Man (Barrow-Downs)

Let me know ASAP if I've done something in violation of the rules.

[Sleepy Ranger]

All your trades are legal.

[Thenamir]

aw-RIGHT! Now, when do we get the next updated leader-board? we've not seen who's ahead since last Friday.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Thenamir

Players IN
MF--Maedhros (Tuna)
MF--The Phantom (Barrow-Downs)
MF--Dwalin (Misty Mountains)
MF--Miller (Ham)

FW--Mormegil (Nargothrond)
FW--Saucepan Man (Barrow-Downs)

Now please Thenamir... let's give some space to the variety of things!

Originally Posted by the phantom

Okay, let's make sure I have this straight. We must set our eleven in stone before the first match of round 3, because all the matches will be at once

Originally Posted by Sleepy

There are three rounds to go technically. One set tomorrow, another day after and the final on the day after that. So yeah, your team must be complete by the third day.

Sorry to come back to this discussion... but at least I'm a bit lost with this one.

So do we have a chance to use some of our initial ten changes during the last round of the first-round matches (not to score more points on any particular game but to be able to see which teams do well and which will be their opponents in the knock-out round) or even make changes on that allowance just before the knock-out stages begin? Or is it that no changes with a player in a team that has played it's third match are not allowed?

That would be nice to know... Thinking of my team for the knock-out rounds depends heavily on the performance of the teams here (and who they will meet in the knock-outs) and I wouldn't want to use all my changes now if I'm allowed to change things after the round-robins are over...

[The Saucepan Man]

OK, it's time to axe the dead (Mirk)wood and bring in some fresh blood(letters).

Saucepan (Un)Athletic hereby submits a request to make the following trades:

OUT
DF - Manwe (Valinor)
MF - Legolas (Mirkwood)
FW - Pippin Took (The Shire)

IN
DF - Maglor (Tuna)
MF - Thuringwethil (Angband)
FW - Sauron (Mordor)

Suddenly, Saucepan (Un)Athletic seems a darker team altogether ...

Now watch Pippin score a hat trick in the Shire's final match of the round.

I will edit my original team list earlier in this thread.

[Nogrod]

The Tumunzahar board tries to keep up a sporting spirit and will decline any temptation to sign in Dwalin, Miller, Mormegil, Thuringwethel and others... It's hard but hopefully it pays back with at least the moral victory...

But as there is some insecurity about the deadlines of the trade-offs Nogg's Ball will do the following changes immediately.

Traded off:
DEF. Manwë (Valinor)
MF. Beleg (Doriath)

Signed in:
DEF. Firefoot (Barrow Downs)
MF. Húrin (Gondolin)

The current line-up will then be:

GK
Smaug (Erebor)

DEFENCE
Nogrod (Barrow-Downs)
Maeglin (Gondolin)
Ancalagon the Black (Angband)
Firefoot (Barrow-Downs) - traded for Manwë


MIDDLEFIELD
Feanor of the Peredhil (Barrow-Downs)
Húrin (Gondolin) - traded for Beleg
Maedhros (Tuna)


FORWARDS
Finwë (Tuna) - traded for Tulkas
Gothmog (Angband)
Witch-King (Mordor)

The board of Tumunzahar still wishes for Smaug to show his qualities and keeps on trusting the value of Ancalagon, Nogrod, Maedhros, Gothmog and the Witch-King... other players are under a constant surveillance on the coming rounds.

Total changes with Nogg's Ball this far = 3

The changed team will be copied in the post #12 where the original line up is.

[Thenamir]

I have also made my changes in my original team post, to make scorekeeping a bit easier.

[Nogrod]

The latest standings would be nice as well...

I mean yes we can count them ourselves but it would be much easier if someone with the actual tables in his hands would do that and make it public.

And anyhow we need an impartial (!) side to make the sum-ups... Not that we should change anything here... but just to get our arbitrators to perform their promised duties

[The Saucepan Man]

Saucepan (Un)Athletic hereby submits the following additional trade:

OUT
Elros (Numenor)

IN
Chief Warg (Misty Mountains)

I will update my original team list.

[arcticstorm]

Sorry, it has been a really busy week
here are the player points for the past round.

Moria
Durin's Bane—5
Oin —(-1)
Ori —(-1)
Nar —(-1)
Celebrimbor —(-1)
Watcher in the water—(-1)

Angband
Melkor—8
Thuringwethel—10

Tuna
Finwe—4
Maedhros—10
Amrod—(-1)

Shire
Pippin—4
Lobelia Sackville-Baggins – (-1)
The Old Took – (-1)
Tom Cotton - (-1)
Rosie Cotton – (-1)
Ted Sandyman - (-1)

Mordor
Dark Lord–10
Witch-King –7
Shagrat—10
Shelob – 4
Mouth of Sauron –4
Ufthak – 4
Lagduf – 4
Gothmog – 7
Nazgul – 1
Snaga - 4
Gorbag - 1




Inklings
Christopher Tolkien—5
JRR Tolkien—(-2)
John Wain—(-2)

Barrow-downs
Sleepy Ranger—11
Saucepan Man—13
Phantom—8
Barrow-wight—5
Glirdan—3
Formendacil—(-1)
Arcticstorm—2


Nargothrond
Mormegil—8
Beor - 4
Gelmir - 4
Curufin – 4
Orodreth - 4
Celegorm - 4
Gundor - 4
Finduilas - 1
Arminas - 3
Mim – 4

Buckland
Saradoc - (-1)
Gormidoc Deepdelver – (-1)
Hob Hayward - (-1)
Fatty - (-1)
Gorhendad Oldbuck – (-1)


Misty Mountains
Chief Warg - 4
Gollum - 4
Great Goblin - 4
Nori - 4
Dwalin—7
Bolg—10


Gondolin
Turgon—4
Glorfindel—3
Ulmo —4
Idril —4
Voronwe —4
Maeglin —4
Aradhel—4
Huor – 1
Tuor - 1
Ecthelion - 1
Hurin—13

Mirkwood
Legolas—(-1)
Wine Steward - (-1)
Guard - (-1)
Thrain - (-1)
Spider - (-1)

Doriath
Mablung –8
Dior—3
Elwe – (-1)
Melien – (-1)
Beren- 2
Luthien - (-1)

Ham
Farmer Giles—6
Tailbiter –7
Miller—2


Group A
Erebor
Bard –4
Dain – 4
Brand – 4
Gloin -4
Bombur —4
Roac – 1
Thorin – 1
Fili - 4
Kili—1
Smaug—4

Valinor
Manwe—(-1)
Aule—2


Lothlorien
Gandalf—11
Amroth—4
Celeborn – 4
Nimrodel – 4
Rumil - 4
Orophin—4
Arwen – 1
Haldir—1
Galadriel—5
Gimli—4

Brethil
Niniel – (-1)
Haleth - (-1)
Brandir - (-1)
Dorlas - (-1)
Hunthor - (-1)

Dor-Lomin
Turin—3
Morwen - 4
Nienor - 6
Hador - 4
Gundor—4
Brodda—4
Rian - 1
Aeron - 1
Sador—1


Arnor
Aragorn—14
Arvelag – 4
Argeleb – 4
Halbarad - 4
Trotter—4
Isildur - 3
Earandur - 1
Arvedui - 4
Malvegil—1
Arathorn—3

Rivendell
Bilbo—(-2)
Elladan – (-1)
Glorfindel – (-1)
Erestor – (-1)

Numenore
Tar-Miriel –8
Elros - 4
Aldarion - 4
Erendis – 7
Tar-Minastir—4
Tar Palantir—4
Ar-Pharazon - 1
Tar-Miriel - 1
Tar-Atanamir the Great – 1
Amandil—1



Fangorn
Wormtongue—4
Grishnakh—4
Fimbrethil—4
Lugdush—4
Beechbone—1
Quickbeam—1
Leaflock –1
Saruman—1
Ugluk—1
Treebeard—(-2)

Tol In Gaurhoth
Black Beorning—4
Cobbler—1
Cursed Villager—4
Ordinary Villager—11
Seer—1
Hunter—1
Mythomaniac—1
Werewolf—1



Bree
Goldberry
Badger—4
River Woman—4
Bill Ferney—4
Butterbur—1
Nob—3
Bob—1
Harry—1
Barrow-wight—1
Old man Willow—4

Wooten Major
Nell—4
Harper—4
Art—4
Chief cook—4
Tim—1
Tom—1
Ned—1
Nan—1
Smith--6


Gondor
Damrod – 4
Denethor – 4
Beregond –4
Imrahil—4
Forlong the Fat –1
Hirgon –1
Thengel—1
Ecthelion—4
Faramir—6

I will get the manager standings up soon.

[arcticstorm]

Now that everything is officially switched over from dial up and the internet is not acting up for me here are the standings after round 2

The Grinding Ice
DF--Chief Warg(MM)—4
MF--Arcticstorm(BD)—2
FW--Saucepan Man (BD)—13
Total:19

The fifth Wall
DF - Oin (Moria)—(-1)
DF - Gollum (Misty Mountains)—4
MF - Seer (Tol-In-Gaurhoth)—1
MF - Mîm (Nargothrond)—4
MF - Thuringwethil (Angband)—10
Total:18

Nogg’s Ball
Smaug (Erebor)—4
Maeglin (Gondolin)—4
Manwë—(-1)
Maedhros (Tuna)—10
Witch-King (Mordor)—7
Total:24

Saucepan unathletic
Ulmo—4
Manwe—(-1)
Goldberry –4
Maeglin—4
Elros—4
Legolas—(-1)
the phantom –8
Mormegil –8
The Saucepan Man –13
Pippin Took—4
Total:47

Second best
Ulmo—4
Glirdan –3
Aule—2
Celeborn—4
The Phantom –8
Durin's Bane –5
Sleepy Ranger—11
Sauron—10
Melkor—8
Total:55

Bayer Neverlusen
Ulmo—4
Idril—4
Voronwe—4
Aule —2
Manwe –(-1)
Thuringwethil –10
Sleepy Ranger (Barrowdowns)—11
Saucepan Man (Barrowdowns)—13
Total: 47

Thenamir untied
Watcher in the Water—(-1)
DF--Beren (Doriath)—2
DF--Glorfindel (Rivendell)—(-1)
DF—Luthien—(-1)
Maedhros –10
The Phantom –8
Dwalin –7
Miller—2
Mormegil—8
Saucepan Man –13
Total:47

Reds
Glorfindel – (-1)
Thingol – (-1)
Tuor - 1
Gandalf - 11
Witch-King -7
Total:16

Glirdan
GLIRDAN –3
GLORFINDEL –(-1)
CELEBORN –4
TURGON—4
SLEEPY RANGER—11
THE SAUCEPAN-MAN—13
TREEBEARD—(-2)
Tital:33

Phantasy
THE SAUCEPAN MAN--13
MORMEGIL—8
MAEDHROS—10
HURIN –13
THE PHANTOM –8
THURINGWETHIL—10
CURUFIN –4
MAEGLIN—4
ULMO—4
Total:74

Ka
Ulmo—4
Glorfindel –(-1)
Fimbrethil—4
Hunter –1
Gandalf –11
Sleepy Ranger—11
Finwe –4
Melkor –8
Total:43


Phantasy:117
Second Best: 84 points
Saucepan (Un)Athletic: 80 Points
Thenamir Untied: 74 points
Bayer Neverlusen: 69 points
Ka’s Team: 57 points
The Grinding Ice: 48 points
Nogg's Ball: 47 points
The Reds: 46 points
Glirdan’s team: 45 points
The Fifth wall: 33 points

[Thenamir]

Awesome. Thenamir Untied is moving up in the standings, but Phantasy will be a hard one to catch. Thanks for the update!

[Elmo]

I'm doing better then I expected and I forgot to trade.

[Nogrod]

The board of the Nogg's Ball will retire to a summer holiday for about a week.

Therefore it will announce that Smaug from Erebor has had his chances to show his qualities - and has failed the trust the board has shown. So the following trade will be announced: Smaug (Erebor) will be replaced in Nog's Ball's goal by Beor from Nargothtrond.

The board has no reason to make any other immediate changes and will go with the present squad for the week to come.

PS. The change has been made in to the initial post of Nog's Ball's line up as well.

[Thenamir]

<Thenamir peers into the dusty thread, wondering where the results went...>

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Thenamir

<Thenamir peers into the dusty thread, wondering where the results went...>

Nogrod is as much confused about the situation as he thought the tournament would be about over before he would come back... and behold the silence!

We demand progress! And enlightenment!

[THE Ka]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

We demand progress! And enlightenment!

Progress is good enough.
I don't know, maybe just more patience will yield some results. Maybe not. I'm curious too.

~ Patiently Ka

[the phantom]

Where are we in the tourney? Is group play over? Is the playoff bracket set?

[Thenamir]

Breaking News! MEWC Players On Strike! League Officials Instigate Lockout!

[Elmo]

The cause was the discovery that Mordor's captain, Sauron, had attempted to sway the referees in his games by offering them rings. This resulted in chaos when the referee when to his next game as a wraith and proceeded to try and slay Frodo of the Shire.

Teams have since refused to play with wraith-referees.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I have been away and therfore unable to follow this exiting turnament, but I got to know. . .who controlls Bayern Neverlusen?

I simply love that name!

[Elmo]

It's me..... and despite the name we're quite mediocre.

this tournament seems to be on quite a long hiatus.

[THE Ka]

Originally Posted by Elmo

It's me..... and despite the name we're quite mediocre.

this tournament seems to be on quite a long hiatus.

It will be for quiet a long time, I dunno when it will go up again. I asked Sleepy, and was told it just sort of fell through. So, I wouldn't have any hopes up, but it might kick back to life, who knows.

~ Ka