Do Elves sleep? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Raefindel · 02-23-2002, 10:29 AM

Legolas often just folded his hands and sang to himslef as rest. So What? Do they sleep with their eyes open? Or do they not sleep at all? [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Elven-Maiden · 02-23-2002, 11:44 AM

We elves sleep with our eyes open. I'm not exactly sure where, but in The Two Towers, it says that Legolas slept with his eyes open. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Gayalondiel · 02-23-2002, 11:55 AM

it said that he rested while they were actually moving 'letting his mind wander in the strange paths of elvish dreams' or some such, i don't have it with me. That sounds like they just switch their minds to a different circuit or something.
later in the book everyone else is going to bed and legolos says that to walk in the woods/fields/something will be enough rest, perhaps nature sort of succours elves?

Anarya SilverBranch · 02-23-2002, 11:56 AM

The thing is, elves don't really sleep. It's more like resting. They fix their eyes on something beautiful and think about elvish things. Like in the two towers When Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli are chasing after the orcs, it says that while they are running
Leoglas would rest,

Quote:

If sleep it would be called by men, resting his mind in the strange paths of elvish dreams, even as he walked open-eyed in the light fo this world.- The Two Towers

So you see its not really sleeping.

avarerniliel · 02-23-2002, 12:02 PM

After reading the Two Towers this question also sprang to my mind, but I developed a different theory. I believe that elves have a brain like a dolphin when it comes to sleeping. (I hope no one takes offense to this) Dolphins don't really sleep, they kind of drift into a sub-concious state and rest, but they don't sleep. So that they don't drown. My guess is that elves do something similar-minus the water.

Elven-Maiden · 02-23-2002, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by avarerniliel:
I believe that elves have a brain like a dolphin when it comes to sleeping.

Cool! I'm an elf chick who sleeps like a dolphin! Can I swim too? *Nevlachiel starts to yearn for the sea. Forget crossing in a boat-I'll swim!*

Maeglin · 02-23-2002, 02:19 PM

Maeglin never sleeps [img]smilies/redface.gif[/img]

Aralaithiel · 02-23-2002, 02:19 PM

Yeah...we Elves just switch the circuit. Sometimes, though, we forget to switch it back! LOL!!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Raefindel · 02-23-2002, 03:04 PM

Thanks for all your input. I had kinda formed my own opinions already, but wanted to hear what you all thought.

Birdland · 02-23-2002, 03:14 PM

But...you Elves do blink every once in awhile, right? I mean, just so your eye-balls don't dry out and get stuck. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

Raefindel · 02-23-2002, 03:34 PM

Yeah, I guess we'd all have eyes like Sauron after a while if we didn't blink [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Alchrivëwen · 02-24-2002, 10:36 AM

*is laughing so hard tears are running down her face* well there you have it, elves don't sleep in human terms

Gayahithwen · 02-24-2002, 12:13 PM

oooooops...

*looks embarrased*

just remembered I wrote a fanfic about elves, and they did sleep.. I should have to get away and correct it sometime.. if I only can find it.. oh well.. That could explain why I don't want to go to bed.. Sitting in front of my computer, watching the screen and thinking of elfish things is enough for me.. ^_^
And by the way, I think goldfishes sleep in that way as well.. or something..

avarerniliel · 02-24-2002, 12:26 PM

Uh-oh, I hope all the elves out there don't start sleeping in the ocean now... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Gayahithwen · 02-24-2002, 12:37 PM

I won't, I promise you.. ^_^ To wet for me.. Besides the valar of water (whatever his name is.. I forgot) might get angry at me and let me drown..

Anarya SilverBranch · 02-24-2002, 01:25 PM

Ulmo likes us elves too much to let us drown(: Anyway I wish I could do that elvish sleeping thing in school, that way the teacher would think I was listening but really I was asleep. Ai, that would be heaven!!!

Elven-Maiden · 02-24-2002, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anarya SilverBranch:
Anyway I wish I could do that elvish sleeping thing in school, that way the teacher would think I was listening but really I was asleep. Ai, that would be heaven!!!

I'm with you on that one, Anarya! I'd love to be off in La-la Land while my math teacher thinks I'm paying attention. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

02-24-2002, 03:27 PM

I don't know, In "The Hobbit" when the dwarves were escaping with Bilbo from the elves of mirkwood, 2 of the elves were sleeping after they knocked back some of grandpa's cough medicine.

So maybe when Elves become "entoxicated" they sleep?

[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: Shire_Folk ]

Raefindel · 02-24-2002, 04:02 PM

Good point Shire-folk! I know I can't handle my Miruvor!

Belsirithil · 02-24-2002, 05:35 PM

Anyone can sleep with their eyes open, but Elves do so ordinarily. It probably goes vise-versa.

Aralaithiel · 02-24-2002, 05:42 PM

I can do that sleeping with my eyes open at work. I love being on "autopilot"! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Raefindel...I am NOT giving you the secret recipie for lembas if you can't handle your miruvor! We CANNOT have those silly hobbits getting it! (See "hobbits Unite" in Novices & Newcomers)

Raefindel · 02-24-2002, 05:45 PM

Actually, I've been putting Miruvor IN the lembas. that'll put the kids to sleep! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

avarerniliel · 02-24-2002, 05:49 PM

So many questions about elves sleeping, I'm glad I'm not an elf!!

Belsirithil · 02-24-2002, 05:51 PM

Nay, I did not mean vise-versa between the action; I meant between Elves and us. The Elves probably sleep with closed eyes sometimes.

Raefindel · 02-24-2002, 09:56 PM

Well, I'm an elf and I'm falling asleep, so Goodnight.

Raefindel · 02-24-2002, 10:52 PM

Hey, so what about Elf-babies? Do their parents ever get a break? I couldn't wait for my babies to go to sleep!

Aralaithiel · 02-25-2002, 08:53 PM

Good for you Raefindel! (putting miruvor in the lembas) [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
I'll bet they give miruvor to those Elven babes. But then again, we Elves are so well behaved that the infants wouldn't need anything, save maybe a nice la-la land sending spell. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Joy · 02-26-2002, 12:14 AM

Shire-Folk, what in the world is your pic? It looks kind of like a cross between Treebeard, an Orc and an Oliphant.

Raefindel · 02-26-2002, 12:18 AM

I know what that is! That's the Watcher in the Water! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

02-26-2002, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joy:
Shire-Folk, what in the world is your pic? It looks kind of like a cross between Treebeard, an Orc and an Oliphant.

Actually my pic is the Balrog. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Gayahithwen · 03-02-2002, 10:17 AM

Just remembered that elves doesn't sleep.. So thats why I dun wanna go to bed anymore.. bwahaha.. sorry people, I'm jsut tired.. Need to sit down and look at something beautiful and think elven thoughts.. ^_^

**lindil** · 03-02-2002, 12:45 PM

We of course read about legolas' sleeplesness in tTT, where he says something to the effect of - wandering in his memory while resting, i.e. he is checking out from the 'real' world to a certain degree at least.

Elves minds are like ours only stronger, w/ the dunedain falling inbetween and royalty amongst the dunedain may well have a more disciplined, powerful and trained mind than non-royal, non-valinorean elves.

Other than 'magic' Elvish[and other] minds can link mind to mind [osanwe] recall 'Arwen watching over Aragorn in her thought' Elrond saying 'all under the shadow is dark to my mind ' or some such. And the beautiful scene in the RotK of the Elven ringbearers [and gandalf and Celeborn] 'sitting looking mind to mind, remembering days that have been and were to come' [paraphrase], this property has been crystalized in the palantiri and in a way in the mirror of Galadriel.

The Maiar and Valar can use osanwe even more freely and naturally. as the connection between their minds and bodies is by nature less sullied w/ 'the flesh' or eating and procreation.

Tolkien's awesome essay 'Osanwe-Kenta' available from the journal Vinyar Tengwar [any google search should turn it up] and is a must have.

Now what does the above digression have to do with sleep of Elves [or maia or dunedain for that matter?]
Much of the majesty of Tolkien's legendarium is that he shows the capabilities of 'the mind' in a much purer form than we see in modern life. To find historical examples we must read the lives of the saints - especially the desert fathers and the eastern Orthodox saints, or look carefully into eatern religion and much more circumspectly into sources so mixed w/ the demonic that i will not name them. However what you will see is that the mind [humans that is] do not HAVE TO: sleep, comminicatre w/ words, and a whole host of what we would consider 'elvish' qualities. This however takes discipline, training and sacrifice. If you spend your time eating pizza and glued to your terminal ot tv 5 hours aday , practicing this stuff for a couple of minutes a day will do nothing.

So one of JRRT's great genius is in showing through the Valar/Eldar/Edain the possibilities of the mind.
manwe being able to communicate w/ Eru directly is I believe one of the few allegories to be found in the Legendarium. We can communicate w/ God [assuming He has anything personal to say to us!] but we must be as Manwe was ruler of an harmonious realm, ourselves. and sit quietly and humbly waiting, and when about our tasks acting 'lawfully' i.e. w/ in the bounds of the commandments , given to preserve our bodies and minds unsullied and pure.

so the not sleeping thing [ of which there are exceptions] such as the aforementioned woodelves in a drunken stupor, and I also came across Amroth in UT's history of Galadriel and Celeborn mentioning that 'as he slept a great storm came up and before he awoke the ship was carried far out too sea'. I imagine that elves would sleep in the sese we are used to when great grief or weariness was upon then that did not leave then enough energy to practice reflection.

Note that Aragorn also goes w/ out sleep for much of the journey to Rivendell and then Lorien.

So the elves in general use their minds 24/7, as do the valar and maia, Men can do this under unusual circumstances or combined w/ special heritage. sorry for the rambling nature of all of that.

lindil

Aralaithiel · 03-02-2002, 01:51 PM

No need to apologize, Lindil! I appreciate your enlightenment! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

02-23-2002, 10:29 AM	#1
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	Do Elves sleep? Legolas often just folded his hands and sang to himslef as rest. So What? Do they sleep with their eyes open? Or do they not sleep at all? [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

02-23-2002, 11:44 AM	#2
Elven-Maiden Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 297	We elves sleep with our eyes open. I'm not exactly sure where, but in The Two Towers, it says that Legolas slept with his eyes open. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Tout ce qui est or ne brille pas, Tous ceux qui errent ne sont pas perdus. Mobilis in Mobile

02-23-2002, 11:55 AM	#3
Gayalondiel Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: My own little wierd, wierd world Posts: 133	it said that he rested while they were actually moving 'letting his mind wander in the strange paths of elvish dreams' or some such, i don't have it with me. That sounds like they just switch their minds to a different circuit or something. later in the book everyone else is going to bed and legolos says that to walk in the woods/fields/something will be enough rest, perhaps nature sort of succours elves? __________________ Not another ****ing Elf! ~C.S.Lewis

02-23-2002, 02:19 PM	#7
Maeglin Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nan Elmoth Posts: 136	Maeglin never sleeps [img]smilies/redface.gif[/img] __________________ The fool speaks of what he knows. The wise knows what he speaks of.

02-23-2002, 02:19 PM	#8
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	Yeah...we Elves just switch the circuit. Sometimes, though, we forget to switch it back! LOL!!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"

02-23-2002, 12:02 PM	#5
avarerniliel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In front of the moniter... Posts: 58	After reading the Two Towers this question also sprang to my mind, but I developed a different theory. I believe that elves have a brain like a dolphin when it comes to sleeping. (I hope no one takes offense to this) Dolphins don't really sleep, they kind of drift into a sub-concious state and rest, but they don't sleep. So that they don't drown. My guess is that elves do something similar-minus the water.

02-23-2002, 03:04 PM	#9
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	Thanks for all your input. I had kinda formed my own opinions already, but wanted to hear what you all thought. __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

02-23-2002, 03:14 PM	#10
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	But...you Elves do blink every once in awhile, right? I mean, just so your eye-balls don't dry out and get stuck. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

02-23-2002, 03:34 PM	#11
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	Yeah, I guess we'd all have eyes like Sauron after a while if we didn't blink [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

02-24-2002, 10:36 AM	#12
Alchrivëwen Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Everywhere and aywhere, look behind you! Posts: 56	is laughing so hard tears are running down her face well there you have it, elves don't sleep in human terms __________________ A Elbereth Gilthoniel!

02-24-2002, 12:13 PM	#13
Gayahithwen Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The chat-room. Posts: 241	oooooops... looks embarrased just remembered I wrote a fanfic about elves, and they did sleep.. I should have to get away and correct it sometime.. if I only can find it.. oh well.. That could explain why I don't want to go to bed.. Sitting in front of my computer, watching the screen and thinking of elfish things is enough for me.. ^_^ And by the way, I think goldfishes sleep in that way as well.. or something.. __________________ Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he'll be a mile away - and barefoot.

02-24-2002, 12:26 PM	#14
avarerniliel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In front of the moniter... Posts: 58	Uh-oh, I hope all the elves out there don't start sleeping in the ocean now... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

02-24-2002, 12:37 PM	#15
Gayahithwen Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The chat-room. Posts: 241	I won't, I promise you.. ^_^ To wet for me.. Besides the valar of water (whatever his name is.. I forgot) might get angry at me and let me drown.. __________________ Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he'll be a mile away - and barefoot.

02-24-2002, 01:25 PM	#16
Anarya SilverBranch Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: In maiden meditation, fancy free. Posts: 245	Ulmo likes us elves too much to let us drown(: Anyway I wish I could do that elvish sleeping thing in school, that way the teacher would think I was listening but really I was asleep. Ai, that would be heaven!!! __________________ Snow white! Snow White! O' Lady Clear! O' Queen Beyond the Western Seas! O' light to us that wander here amid the world of woven trees!

02-24-2002, 03:27 PM	#18
Shire_Folk Guest Posts: n/a	I don't know, In "The Hobbit" when the dwarves were escaping with Bilbo from the elves of mirkwood, 2 of the elves were sleeping after they knocked back some of grandpa's cough medicine. So maybe when Elves become "entoxicated" they sleep? [ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: Shire_Folk ]

02-24-2002, 04:02 PM	#19
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	Good point Shire-folk! I know I can't handle my Miruvor! __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

02-24-2002, 05:35 PM	#20
Belsirithil Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cimmura, Elenia, Eosia Posts: 22	Anyone can sleep with their eyes open, but Elves do so ordinarily. It probably goes vise-versa. __________________ Elenia: http://www.angelfire.com/ego/elenia Live long and prosper, in the hearts of Child-Goddess Aphrael, Sephrenia, and me! ~-~Ehlana

02-24-2002, 05:42 PM	#21
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	I can do that sleeping with my eyes open at work. I love being on "autopilot"! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Raefindel...I am NOT giving you the secret recipie for lembas if you can't handle your miruvor! We CANNOT have those silly hobbits getting it! (See "hobbits Unite" in Novices & Newcomers) __________________ A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"

02-24-2002, 05:45 PM	#22
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	Actually, I've been putting Miruvor IN the lembas. that'll put the kids to sleep! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

02-24-2002, 05:49 PM	#23
avarerniliel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In front of the moniter... Posts: 58	So many questions about elves sleeping, I'm glad I'm not an elf!!

02-24-2002, 05:51 PM	#24
Belsirithil Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cimmura, Elenia, Eosia Posts: 22	Nay, I did not mean vise-versa between the action; I meant between Elves and us. The Elves probably sleep with closed eyes sometimes. __________________ Elenia: http://www.angelfire.com/ego/elenia Live long and prosper, in the hearts of Child-Goddess Aphrael, Sephrenia, and me! ~-~Ehlana

02-24-2002, 09:56 PM	#25
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	Well, I'm an elf and I'm falling asleep, so Goodnight. __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

02-24-2002, 10:52 PM	#26
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	Hey, so what about Elf-babies? Do their parents ever get a break? I couldn't wait for my babies to go to sleep! __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

02-25-2002, 08:53 PM	#27
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	Good for you Raefindel! (putting miruvor in the lembas) [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I'll bet they give miruvor to those Elven babes. But then again, we Elves are so well behaved that the infants wouldn't need anything, save maybe a nice la-la land sending spell. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"

02-26-2002, 12:14 AM	#28
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,012	Shire-Folk, what in the world is your pic? It looks kind of like a cross between Treebeard, an Orc and an Oliphant. __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

02-26-2002, 12:18 AM	#29
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	I know what that is! That's the Watcher in the Water! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

03-02-2002, 10:17 AM	#31
Gayahithwen Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The chat-room. Posts: 241	Just remembered that elves doesn't sleep.. So thats why I dun wanna go to bed anymore.. bwahaha.. sorry people, I'm jsut tired.. Need to sit down and look at something beautiful and think elven thoughts.. ^_^ __________________ Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he'll be a mile away - and barefoot.

03-02-2002, 12:45 PM	#32
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	We of course read about legolas' sleeplesness in tTT, where he says something to the effect of - wandering in his memory while resting, i.e. he is checking out from the 'real' world to a certain degree at least. Elves minds are like ours only stronger, w/ the dunedain falling inbetween and royalty amongst the dunedain may well have a more disciplined, powerful and trained mind than non-royal, non-valinorean elves. Other than 'magic' Elvish[and other] minds can link mind to mind [osanwe] recall 'Arwen watching over Aragorn in her thought' Elrond saying 'all under the shadow is dark to my mind ' or some such. And the beautiful scene in the RotK of the Elven ringbearers [and gandalf and Celeborn] 'sitting looking mind to mind, remembering days that have been and were to come' [paraphrase], this property has been crystalized in the palantiri and in a way in the mirror of Galadriel. The Maiar and Valar can use osanwe even more freely and naturally. as the connection between their minds and bodies is by nature less sullied w/ 'the flesh' or eating and procreation. Tolkien's awesome essay 'Osanwe-Kenta' available from the journal Vinyar Tengwar [any google search should turn it up] and is a must have. Now what does the above digression have to do with sleep of Elves [or maia or dunedain for that matter?] Much of the majesty of Tolkien's legendarium is that he shows the capabilities of 'the mind' in a much purer form than we see in modern life. To find historical examples we must read the lives of the saints - especially the desert fathers and the eastern Orthodox saints, or look carefully into eatern religion and much more circumspectly into sources so mixed w/ the demonic that i will not name them. However what you will see is that the mind [humans that is] do not HAVE TO: sleep, comminicatre w/ words, and a whole host of what we would consider 'elvish' qualities. This however takes discipline, training and sacrifice. If you spend your time eating pizza and glued to your terminal ot tv 5 hours aday , practicing this stuff for a couple of minutes a day will do nothing. So one of JRRT's great genius is in showing through the Valar/Eldar/Edain the possibilities of the mind. manwe being able to communicate w/ Eru directly is I believe one of the few allegories to be found in the Legendarium. We can communicate w/ God [assuming He has anything personal to say to us!] but we must be as Manwe was ruler of an harmonious realm, ourselves. and sit quietly and humbly waiting, and when about our tasks acting 'lawfully' i.e. w/ in the bounds of the commandments , given to preserve our bodies and minds unsullied and pure. so the not sleeping thing [ of which there are exceptions] such as the aforementioned woodelves in a drunken stupor, and I also came across Amroth in UT's history of Galadriel and Celeborn mentioning that 'as he slept a great storm came up and before he awoke the ship was carried far out too sea'. I imagine that elves would sleep in the sese we are used to when great grief or weariness was upon then that did not leave then enough energy to practice reflection. Note that Aragorn also goes w/ out sleep for much of the journey to Rivendell and then Lorien. So the elves in general use their minds 24/7, as do the valar and maia, Men can do this under unusual circumstances or combined w/ special heritage. sorry for the rambling nature of all of that. lindil __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

03-02-2002, 01:51 PM	#33
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	No need to apologize, Lindil! I appreciate your enlightenment! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"