The Link between Tolkien, Peter Pan, and Star Wars... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elfchick7 · 11-16-2004, 08:48 PM

Hey y'all! Has anyone noticed how a great many Tolkien fans also like Star Wars and Peter Pan? I was just wondering what y'all thought the connections were. I just though that it would be neat to hear everyone's opinions on the subject. Also, when watching the credits to the newest version of Peter Pan, I noticed that Weta workshops did the mermaids' costuming and Luke Skywalker Sound Inc. worked on the sound for the movie. Of course they work on a great many things but I just thought that it was an odd coincidence. Have a great Day!

Tevildo · 11-17-2004, 10:10 AM

Hmm....

I'm not so sure about this. I think if you took a wider survey you might find that overall Tolkien fans tend to read more fantasy and myth than the general population at large, although even that is not an ironclad law. But as to Star Wars and Peter Pan, I'm less certain about that.

Perhaps it is just because the two particular examples of fantasy you mentioned are fairly prominent in popular culture right now so you are more aware of them. The Peter Pan movie with Jeremy Sumpter still generates interest. In fact, there are young female fans who are crazy about Sumpter in the same way they were about Orlando Bloom. And there is a lot of focus on Star Wars again with the trailer for the new and final movie just out.

Star Wars has an underlying element of popular "myth", and Peter Pan has elements of faerie. It's also interesting to read about Barrie's actual life and see how his likes, dislikes, and concerns are reflected in the character of Peter Pan. You can,of course, do some of the same with Tolkien and his works, looking for examples of Catholicism, Nordic myth, his feelings for the environment, or his connection with England.

Still, while Barrie and Star Wars can both be entertaining, they fall far short of the marvelous world that JRRT created, with so many layers and so much depth. And there are other works of fantasy besides these two that have, I think, closer ties with Middle-earth---though nothing comes close to matching it.

~Tevildo, Prince of cats

Elfchick7 · 11-17-2004, 10:59 AM

Well, there is definitely something to be found lacking in the Episodes 1, 2, and (most likeley) 3 in Star Wars. Still, I found that J. M. Barrie's "Peter Pan and Wendy" was very well written. It was like literary candy for me. Naturally the two do not compare with Tolkiens work. He has layers and layers of deep meaning geniously worked into his writings. He had a real gift.
But most of the people that live areound my area who like Tolkiens work have always liked Star Wars and Peter Pan since they were very young. For example, I have a friend who has had a bunch of Boba Fett action figures since they were first made. I found it interesting that there were so many other who like me grew up on the musical production of Peter Pan, the original Star Wars trilogy, and the Hobbit and Return of the King cartoons. When I first watched the Tolkien cartons, I had no idea what I was watching, then I officially "grew out of" watching the cartoons. Suddenly people began to talk of this awesome movie called "The Fellowship of the Ring" that was coming out. My sister insisted that I read the books before I saw the movies. With much skepticism, I read them. Now my friends all groan, "not again" when I use the Lord of the Rings as a comparison to some every day situation.
I just recently caught the pattern of people liking LOTR, Peter Pan, and Star Wars. One cannot help but be entrigued by the riddle of a boy who has every adventure except one and that is the adventure of loving others than himself. It really makes people more content with their own lives. We come to realize that if the "Never Land" were real, then many of us would soon grow tired of it. As for Star Wars, I am not exactly sure, but I do see a few paralels between the space trilogy and our beloved Tolkien books. Perhaps Lucas even ot some of his ideas from Tolkien. Well, Just a thought.

Bungo Baggins · 11-24-2004, 01:29 PM

I think it is natural that people who are attracted to Tolkien's works usually like Star Wars, Peter Pan, Narnia, the classic Sinbad movies, etc. These types of fans are appreciative of imaginative worlds. However, I think if a survey were taken, most Tolkien fans would place his works high above the others. They are all great stories but it would be like comparing a hamburger at McDonalds to a gourmet French meal. i.e. Tolkien has much more substance and depth.

Peter Pan will certanly always be around (and is popular now because of teen idol Jeremy Sumpter and the fantastic new Johnny Depp movie), as will Star wars and other classic stories. But I think people looking for a deeper literary experience will always appreciate Tolkien. He not only created a great story (as did the others) but created an entire world, language and history. The Star Wars movies will be remembered fondly by people who grew up with the original, but the latest three will not have the same legions of fans as were drawn to Jackson's movies.

Tolkien's genius aside, the people who appreciate his works are more likely to enjoy Peter Pan, Narnia, Incredibles, King Kong, etc. than the crowd who would rather see something like a Woody Allen movie.

Elfchick7 · 04-09-2007, 08:26 PM

I know that this thread hasn't been active for quite some time but I just thought that an interesting fact is that WETA and Skywalker Sound were both involved in the production of the latest Peter Pan film. Interesting, no?

Haha i just realized that I already said that. Ignore me!

Lalwendë · 04-10-2007, 01:53 AM

Actually, I'm not fussed on Peter Pan and never really was even as a child. I much preferred Alice In Wonderland! Though I did like the film with Johnny Depp and Kate Winslet in it - something for everyone there if you know what I mean!

Now I'm grown up I have to admit I'm a bit put off Peter Pan by it's associations with Whacko Jacko, which might be a bit sad of me, but nevertheless, he's spoiled it for me.

We might be fans of Tolkien but it doesn't mean we like all fantasy and sci-fi; for example I don't like the Narnia books (but I do love the film, that's marvellous) and I rarely read mass market fantasy apart from Potter. I saw the three first Star Wars films as a youngster but I only saw the other three just before the last one came out. I still haven't seen the Alien films either.

Elmo · 04-10-2007, 02:06 AM

I don't like Peter Pan except they do make a mean Peter Pan ice cream in the Vissochi's in Kirriemuir (J.M Barrie's birthplace). Go there now!

As for Star Wars, I was put off it when I wondered how all those teddy bears managed to kill the stormtroopers in the third film

Elfchick7 · 04-10-2007, 08:20 AM

So, maybe a good question for this thread would be:

Do you like all three? Why or why not?

Boo Radley · 04-10-2007, 11:55 AM

Hmmmm... I like just about anything that's Science Fiction or Fantasy, but I also like Historical.
AND I like Woody Allen (Well... his older stuff). Actually, I like most comedies as long as they derive their humor from wit as opposed to slapstick.
But, wait... I also like the Three Stooges!!!

I am a mystery, wrapped in an enigma, surrounded by a light, flaky crust.

And I liked the first three Star Wars and loathed the last three.

I'd have to say that those of us who like everything that's been mentioned in this thread have very good imaginations.

Elfchick7 · 04-10-2007, 12:13 PM

I feel the same about Star Wars. The first three were so much fun. The second three....no comment. *glares at George Lucas*

Boo Radley · 04-10-2007, 12:57 PM

As for Peter pan, I've never read the book. Or at least if I did, it was ages and ages ago.
I've seen the telecast of the (I think) Broadway version with Mary Martin as Peter and Cyril Ritchard as Hook, but I don't think I've seen it since... the mid '60's? something like that, at least.
Oh, and I think I've seen the Disney version, but again, that was decades and decades ago.
And decades.

Elfchick7 · 04-10-2007, 01:04 PM

If you want, you can read the book online here: http://www.readbookonline.net/title/6/

It's waaaaaay down on the bottom of the page.

Enjoy, all!

Lindale · 06-18-2007, 07:50 PM

Doing a sort of comparison between Tolkien, Barrie, and Lucas's respective works? Let's do a quick comparative lit thingy (my degree!) here. All are fantasy, but not like Garcia Marquez's magical realism that had direct historical sources.

Tolkien had great influence from the myths and stories he loved since he was a kid; apparently, so did Barrie, but I do not think Barrie went all the way into studying cultures and other myths and language to create Neverland. Arda, was, well, Arda, a universe of its own with its own Creation myth and histories, its rich histories gathered from its Ages. And Lucas. Lucas, he admitted (sorry I don't have a link, can somebody...) having Tolkieny influences (I think there's a thread or two or more that can be helpful here, Tolkien and Star Wars stuff), like Palpatine=Morgoth and Vader=Sauron. Lucas created, like, two generations, two trilogies. Tolkien, he had Arda. Barrie, just a generation, just Peter Pan, a sort of escapism from the mundane and common. Not that TOlkien and Lucas did not do so either, but hey. They expanded. A galaxy with its own races and aliens and its Senate and Empire, and a Universe with its 'the One', its Guardians, its Children.

Given more time, I wonder, what could Lucas have done with his galaxy? Not that I'm expecting another Creation myth or something, but what? Pity there's only two trilogies.

Now the trilogies... hmm... The first trilogy had brilliant plots but not advanced technology, and it almost seemed like a joke the part that the spear-bearing Ewoks fought the Clones. THe second? Brilliant effects... not so brilliant, but brilliant nonetheless, plots.

Morthoron · 06-18-2007, 08:02 PM

I despise Star Wars and its banal acting and New Age psychobabble religion. Also, I can live without reading or seeing Peter Pan ever again. Sorry to not fit into your hypothesis. *bows*

Finduilas · 06-19-2007, 01:19 PM

Quote:

I despise Star Wars

Please don't despise it. Some of it's acting is terrible, at least half of it is stupid, and other things, but it isn't that bad.

I personally like Star Wars, but I don't love it

. I can totally understand anyone's dislike like of it, seeing as my mom has yet to sit through an entire episode. But I don't think that my like for it is at all related to my like for ME and LotR. I watch Star Wars mostly for amusement.

11-16-2004, 08:48 PM	#1
Elfchick7 Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In the Greenwood Posts: 201	The Link between Tolkien, Peter Pan, and Star Wars... Hey y'all! Has anyone noticed how a great many Tolkien fans also like Star Wars and Peter Pan? I was just wondering what y'all thought the connections were. I just though that it would be neat to hear everyone's opinions on the subject. Also, when watching the credits to the newest version of Peter Pan, I noticed that Weta workshops did the mermaids' costuming and Luke Skywalker Sound Inc. worked on the sound for the movie. Of course they work on a great many things but I just thought that it was an odd coincidence. Have a great Day! __________________ "Yesterday is history. Tommorow is a mystery. Today is a gift from God. That's why it's called the PRESENT!"

11-17-2004, 10:10 AM	#2
Tevildo Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Curled up on Melko's lap Posts: 425	Hmm.... I'm not so sure about this. I think if you took a wider survey you might find that overall Tolkien fans tend to read more fantasy and myth than the general population at large, although even that is not an ironclad law. But as to Star Wars and Peter Pan, I'm less certain about that. Perhaps it is just because the two particular examples of fantasy you mentioned are fairly prominent in popular culture right now so you are more aware of them. The Peter Pan movie with Jeremy Sumpter still generates interest. In fact, there are young female fans who are crazy about Sumpter in the same way they were about Orlando Bloom. And there is a lot of focus on Star Wars again with the trailer for the new and final movie just out. Star Wars has an underlying element of popular "myth", and Peter Pan has elements of faerie. It's also interesting to read about Barrie's actual life and see how his likes, dislikes, and concerns are reflected in the character of Peter Pan. You can,of course, do some of the same with Tolkien and his works, looking for examples of Catholicism, Nordic myth, his feelings for the environment, or his connection with England. Still, while Barrie and Star Wars can both be entertaining, they fall far short of the marvelous world that JRRT created, with so many layers and so much depth. And there are other works of fantasy besides these two that have, I think, closer ties with Middle-earth---though nothing comes close to matching it. ~Tevildo, Prince of cats __________________ Now Tevildo was a mighty cat--the mightiest of all--and possessed of an evil spirit,...and he was in Melko's constant following; and that cat had all cats subject to him, and he and his subjects were the chasers and getters of meat for Melko's table.

11-17-2004, 10:59 AM	#3
Elfchick7 Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In the Greenwood Posts: 201	Well, there is definitely something to be found lacking in the Episodes 1, 2, and (most likeley) 3 in Star Wars. Still, I found that J. M. Barrie's "Peter Pan and Wendy" was very well written. It was like literary candy for me. Naturally the two do not compare with Tolkiens work. He has layers and layers of deep meaning geniously worked into his writings. He had a real gift. But most of the people that live areound my area who like Tolkiens work have always liked Star Wars and Peter Pan since they were very young. For example, I have a friend who has had a bunch of Boba Fett action figures since they were first made. I found it interesting that there were so many other who like me grew up on the musical production of Peter Pan, the original Star Wars trilogy, and the Hobbit and Return of the King cartoons. When I first watched the Tolkien cartons, I had no idea what I was watching, then I officially "grew out of" watching the cartoons. Suddenly people began to talk of this awesome movie called "The Fellowship of the Ring" that was coming out. My sister insisted that I read the books before I saw the movies. With much skepticism, I read them. Now my friends all groan, "not again" when I use the Lord of the Rings as a comparison to some every day situation. I just recently caught the pattern of people liking LOTR, Peter Pan, and Star Wars. One cannot help but be entrigued by the riddle of a boy who has every adventure except one and that is the adventure of loving others than himself. It really makes people more content with their own lives. We come to realize that if the "Never Land" were real, then many of us would soon grow tired of it. As for Star Wars, I am not exactly sure, but I do see a few paralels between the space trilogy and our beloved Tolkien books. Perhaps Lucas even ot some of his ideas from Tolkien. Well, Just a thought. __________________ "Yesterday is history. Tommorow is a mystery. Today is a gift from God. That's why it's called the PRESENT!"

11-24-2004, 01:29 PM	#4
Bungo Baggins Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The shire Posts: 32	I think it is natural that people who are attracted to Tolkien's works usually like Star Wars, Peter Pan, Narnia, the classic Sinbad movies, etc. These types of fans are appreciative of imaginative worlds. However, I think if a survey were taken, most Tolkien fans would place his works high above the others. They are all great stories but it would be like comparing a hamburger at McDonalds to a gourmet French meal. i.e. Tolkien has much more substance and depth. Peter Pan will certanly always be around (and is popular now because of teen idol Jeremy Sumpter and the fantastic new Johnny Depp movie), as will Star wars and other classic stories. But I think people looking for a deeper literary experience will always appreciate Tolkien. He not only created a great story (as did the others) but created an entire world, language and history. The Star Wars movies will be remembered fondly by people who grew up with the original, but the latest three will not have the same legions of fans as were drawn to Jackson's movies. Tolkien's genius aside, the people who appreciate his works are more likely to enjoy Peter Pan, Narnia, Incredibles, King Kong, etc. than the crowd who would rather see something like a Woody Allen movie. __________________ "The closer we are to danger, the farther we are from harm. It's the last thing he'll expect."

04-09-2007, 08:26 PM	#5
Elfchick7 Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In the Greenwood Posts: 201	I know that this thread hasn't been active for quite some time but I just thought that an interesting fact is that WETA and Skywalker Sound were both involved in the production of the latest Peter Pan film. Interesting, no? Haha i just realized that I already said that. Ignore me! __________________ "Yesterday is history. Tommorow is a mystery. Today is a gift from God. That's why it's called the PRESENT!"

04-10-2007, 01:53 AM	#6
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	Actually, I'm not fussed on Peter Pan and never really was even as a child. I much preferred Alice In Wonderland! Though I did like the film with Johnny Depp and Kate Winslet in it - something for everyone there if you know what I mean! Now I'm grown up I have to admit I'm a bit put off Peter Pan by it's associations with Whacko Jacko, which might be a bit sad of me, but nevertheless, he's spoiled it for me. We might be fans of Tolkien but it doesn't mean we like all fantasy and sci-fi; for example I don't like the Narnia books (but I do love the film, that's marvellous) and I rarely read mass market fantasy apart from Potter. I saw the three first Star Wars films as a youngster but I only saw the other three just before the last one came out. I still haven't seen the Alien films either. __________________ Gordon's alive!

04-10-2007, 02:06 AM	#7
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	I don't like Peter Pan except they do make a mean Peter Pan ice cream in the Vissochi's in Kirriemuir (J.M Barrie's birthplace). Go there now! As for Star Wars, I was put off it when I wondered how all those teddy bears managed to kill the stormtroopers in the third film __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.

04-10-2007, 08:20 AM	#8
Elfchick7 Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In the Greenwood Posts: 201	So, maybe a good question for this thread would be: Do you like all three? Why or why not? __________________ "Yesterday is history. Tommorow is a mystery. Today is a gift from God. That's why it's called the PRESENT!"

04-10-2007, 11:55 AM	#9
Boo Radley Wight Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ohio. Believe it or not. Posts: 145	Hmmmm... I like just about anything that's Science Fiction or Fantasy, but I also like Historical. AND I like Woody Allen (Well... his older stuff). Actually, I like most comedies as long as they derive their humor from wit as opposed to slapstick. But, wait... I also like the Three Stooges!!! I am a mystery, wrapped in an enigma, surrounded by a light, flaky crust. And I liked the first three Star Wars and loathed the last three. I'd have to say that those of us who like everything that's been mentioned in this thread have very good imaginations. __________________ Don't believe everything you read on the interwebs. That's how World War 1 got started!

04-10-2007, 12:13 PM	#10
Elfchick7 Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In the Greenwood Posts: 201	I feel the same about Star Wars. The first three were so much fun. The second three....no comment. glares at George Lucas __________________ "Yesterday is history. Tommorow is a mystery. Today is a gift from God. That's why it's called the PRESENT!"

04-10-2007, 12:57 PM	#11
Boo Radley Wight Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ohio. Believe it or not. Posts: 145	As for Peter pan, I've never read the book. Or at least if I did, it was ages and ages ago. I've seen the telecast of the (I think) Broadway version with Mary Martin as Peter and Cyril Ritchard as Hook, but I don't think I've seen it since... the mid '60's? something like that, at least. Oh, and I think I've seen the Disney version, but again, that was decades and decades ago. And decades. __________________ Don't believe everything you read on the interwebs. That's how World War 1 got started!

04-10-2007, 01:04 PM	#12
Elfchick7 Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In the Greenwood Posts: 201	If you want, you can read the book online here: http://www.readbookonline.net/title/6/ It's waaaaaay down on the bottom of the page. Enjoy, all! __________________ "Yesterday is history. Tommorow is a mystery. Today is a gift from God. That's why it's called the PRESENT!"

06-18-2007, 07:50 PM	#13
Lindale Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: midway upon... in a forest dark Posts: 975	Doing a sort of comparison between Tolkien, Barrie, and Lucas's respective works? Let's do a quick comparative lit thingy (my degree!) here. All are fantasy, but not like Garcia Marquez's magical realism that had direct historical sources. Tolkien had great influence from the myths and stories he loved since he was a kid; apparently, so did Barrie, but I do not think Barrie went all the way into studying cultures and other myths and language to create Neverland. Arda, was, well, Arda, a universe of its own with its own Creation myth and histories, its rich histories gathered from its Ages. And Lucas. Lucas, he admitted (sorry I don't have a link, can somebody...) having Tolkieny influences (I think there's a thread or two or more that can be helpful here, Tolkien and Star Wars stuff), like Palpatine=Morgoth and Vader=Sauron. Lucas created, like, two generations, two trilogies. Tolkien, he had Arda. Barrie, just a generation, just Peter Pan, a sort of escapism from the mundane and common. Not that TOlkien and Lucas did not do so either, but hey. They expanded. A galaxy with its own races and aliens and its Senate and Empire, and a Universe with its 'the One', its Guardians, its Children. Given more time, I wonder, what could Lucas have done with his galaxy? Not that I'm expecting another Creation myth or something, but what? Pity there's only two trilogies. Now the trilogies... hmm... The first trilogy had brilliant plots but not advanced technology, and it almost seemed like a joke the part that the spear-bearing Ewoks fought the Clones. THe second? Brilliant effects... not so brilliant, but brilliant nonetheless, plots. __________________ The heart does things for reasons Reason itself cannot comprehend. - Blaise Pascal Legal Madness.

06-18-2007, 08:02 PM	#14
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,509	I despise Star Wars and its banal acting and New Age psychobabble religion. Also, I can live without reading or seeing Peter Pan ever again. Sorry to not fit into your hypothesis. bows __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.