Did Gollum deserve death? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

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Did Gollum deserve death?

Guest Did Gollum deserve death? 03-21-2007, 03:14 PM

Folwren Gandalf didn't say that... 03-21-2007, 03:29 PM

Guest Where the plague did Gandalf... 03-21-2007, 04:23 PM

Morwen [QUOTE=Folwren]Gandalf didn't... 03-21-2007, 05:25 PM

Kuruharan Right here... 03-21-2007, 05:35 PM

Folwren Thank you Kuruharan. Right... 03-21-2007, 06:00 PM

Morwen I don't equate "dealing out... 03-21-2007, 06:45 PM

Guest I totally agree to the above... 03-22-2007, 12:12 PM

More replies below current depth...

Guest I think you are hugely... 03-22-2007, 07:08 PM

Boo Radley Gandalf's quote reads:... 03-22-2007, 07:16 PM

Guest In England, this would... 03-23-2007, 12:43 PM

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Mithalwen Well my country doesn't... 03-21-2007, 03:41 PM

The Might As Mithalwen already pointed... 03-21-2007, 04:23 PM

Macalaure I'd say this depends largely... 03-21-2007, 05:24 PM

Raynor I agree. I fail to see how... 03-21-2007, 11:28 PM

Lalwendë I agree with everything... 03-22-2007, 04:39 AM

Raynor Hm, where is it stated that... 03-22-2007, 05:54 AM

The Might I agree with Raynor here. As... 03-22-2007, 07:29 AM

Folwren I agree with Raynor, and... 03-22-2007, 08:00 AM

The Might Is it me or has the the... 03-22-2007, 08:13 AM

Thinlómien No it's not just you. I'm... 03-22-2007, 08:23 AM

Macalaure I think the problem is that,... 03-22-2007, 08:41 AM

Folwren Cross posted with Mac,... 03-22-2007, 08:52 AM

Lalwendë I agree. Such a discussion is... 03-22-2007, 08:56 AM

The Saucepan Man You are right that the... 03-22-2007, 09:12 AM

Lalwendë But again remember the need... 03-22-2007, 09:38 AM

The Saucepan Man To add to what Raynor said,... 03-22-2007, 09:57 AM

Raynor Tolkien actually complained... 03-22-2007, 10:00 AM

Lalwendë Tut tut Mr Sauce. Now, would... 03-22-2007, 10:56 AM

The Saucepan Man Well, if we are going to... 03-22-2007, 12:12 PM

Boromir88 Just a quick comment... 03-22-2007, 01:38 PM

Raynor I fail to see what shadow of... 03-22-2007, 01:41 PM

Mithalwen Cue Rumpole and the Golden... 03-22-2007, 02:03 PM

Raynor I know of no evidence that... 03-22-2007, 02:18 PM

Mithalwen Can't you...? There is a... 03-22-2007, 02:42 PM

Raynor Would you care to give some... 03-22-2007, 02:46 PM

Mithalwen LOTR as we know it is a work... 03-22-2007, 03:26 PM

The Might Lalwende, with all due... 03-22-2007, 04:08 PM

Lalwendë Me subjective? Isn't... 03-22-2007, 04:52 PM

davem And let's not forget that... 03-22-2007, 05:21 PM

The Saucepan Man This debate is (as so often... 03-22-2007, 07:38 PM

Folwren Some readers, p'raps, maybe,... 03-22-2007, 08:02 PM

davem Doesn't work. A reading of... 03-22-2007, 03:57 PM

Raynor Why would he present... 03-23-2007, 12:21 AM

davem Smeagol spent 500 years alone... 03-23-2007, 01:16 AM

Raynor Irrelevant conclusion, since... 03-23-2007, 06:09 AM

The Might The word "your" is not my... 03-23-2007, 08:22 AM

alatar Taking up Bêthberry's point,... 03-23-2007, 09:26 AM

Boromir88 My mistake, I forgot to wrap... 03-23-2007, 10:38 AM

alatar Saruman, even after trying to... 03-23-2007, 10:47 AM

Mithalwen Sauce: Quote: And I also... 03-23-2007, 10:44 AM

Child of the 7th Age The one thing I can be... 03-23-2007, 10:55 AM

davem Well, once again I have to... 03-23-2007, 01:02 PM

alatar Sounds a bit too 'relative'... 03-23-2007, 01:19 PM

davem I'm saying he 'deserves' to... 03-23-2007, 02:00 PM

alatar I'm with you, but (and this... 03-23-2007, 02:11 PM

davem No, I don't think so. Smeagol... 03-23-2007, 02:51 PM

Aiwendil Davem wrote: I think you... 03-23-2007, 03:17 PM

Morwen "Its interesting that his own... 03-23-2007, 03:20 PM

Thenamir I am in agreement with Child:... 03-23-2007, 03:15 PM

davem My feeling is that they don't... 03-23-2007, 03:22 PM

Thenamir I am in agreement here -- it... 03-23-2007, 03:40 PM

Kuruharan ...a minor correction 03-23-2007, 04:16 PM

Lalwendë Err, not quite sure where you... 03-23-2007, 04:34 PM

Raynor But in this case you seem to... 03-23-2007, 05:02 PM

davem He is also portrayed as... 03-23-2007, 05:52 PM

Raynor Because they saw he has the... 03-23-2007, 06:20 PM

davem The first example gives... 03-24-2007, 01:45 AM

Raynor If you read my argument, you... 03-24-2007, 02:36 AM

davem Well, as I remember it was... 03-24-2007, 02:45 AM

Raynor Well, that is not as relevant... 03-24-2007, 02:50 AM

davem Well, the phrase nothing is... 03-24-2007, 03:00 AM

Raynor Let it be known that I find... 03-24-2007, 03:04 AM

Lalwendë And therein lies something... 03-24-2007, 05:32 AM

Raynor Do you know these readers,... 03-24-2007, 08:17 AM

The Might No hard thoughts davem, still... 03-24-2007, 09:15 AM

davem The question still remains -... 03-24-2007, 10:48 AM

Legate of Amon Lanc And this is why I think there... 03-24-2007, 11:11 AM

Raynor Davem, if I remember... 03-24-2007, 11:28 AM

davem I accept that there was a... 03-24-2007, 11:37 AM

Raynor While Tolkien does not assume... 03-24-2007, 11:56 AM

davem Nope. This implies that he... 03-24-2007, 12:08 PM

Raynor But the very fact that he had... 03-24-2007, 12:14 PM

davem It showed he had morality.... 03-24-2007, 12:21 PM

Raynor So, he has morality only when... 03-24-2007, 12:49 PM

Macalaure I think the notions of... 03-24-2007, 01:44 PM

Lalwendë Oh dear. Seeing as the... 03-24-2007, 06:21 PM

davem No he isn't 'evil'. He does... 03-24-2007, 05:55 PM

Raynor Would you care to address my... 03-25-2007, 01:23 AM

davem I have no idea what Gollum's... 03-25-2007, 02:34 AM

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Legate of Amon Lanc Let's speak it all and... 03-24-2007, 01:34 PM

Raynor We are in agreement then on... 03-24-2007, 02:27 PM

Macalaure I agree. You have a point... 03-24-2007, 02:34 PM

Boromir88 Well said...those who commit... 03-23-2007, 05:07 PM

Raynor Are you arguing that only... 03-23-2007, 05:19 PM

Boromir88 Raynor: LOTR has been... 03-23-2007, 01:21 AM

Lalwendë And that's why I have no... 03-23-2007, 04:37 AM

Bêthberry Perhaps we are looking at... 03-23-2007, 06:21 AM

Raynor However, the Silmarillion,... 03-23-2007, 06:32 AM

Bêthberry Oh dear, it appears I haven't... 03-23-2007, 07:08 AM

Raynor I don't think we could figure... 03-23-2007, 07:37 AM

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh Deserve's got nothing to do... 03-23-2007, 12:45 PM

Lalwendë Bb, well Death is a good... 03-23-2007, 06:48 AM

Folwren Hang it all, Boromir, that's... 03-22-2007, 02:06 PM

alatar I think that Gandalf was... 03-22-2007, 02:36 PM

Lalwendë Why would he seek to... 03-22-2007, 03:06 PM

Boromir88 One more quick comment... ... 03-22-2007, 04:35 PM

Lalwendë Firstly, we don't know that... 03-22-2007, 09:25 AM

Raynor Quite the reverse argument... 03-22-2007, 09:46 AM

Raynor You also are not taking into... 03-22-2007, 09:35 AM

Boromir88 There is no doubt that as... 03-22-2007, 10:05 AM

Raynor Then again, as I quoted from... 03-22-2007, 10:12 AM

Boromir88 I think the question we... 03-22-2007, 10:21 AM

Raynor I would prefix... 03-22-2007, 10:31 AM

Guest I don't think that Gollum... 03-22-2007, 10:32 AM

The Saucepan Man I don't think that anyone is... 03-22-2007, 10:51 AM

Folwren I know the ring had a great... 03-22-2007, 10:19 AM

Lalwendë Firstly I must correct... 03-22-2007, 08:28 AM

Folwren I strongly disagree with you... 03-22-2007, 08:48 AM

Thinlómien Foley, a few points. ... 03-22-2007, 08:56 AM

Folwren Bilbo didn't even attack... 03-22-2007, 09:14 AM

The Saucepan Man I meant also to note here... 03-22-2007, 09:23 AM

HerenIstarion My apologies for [probably]... 03-25-2007, 09:18 AM

davem Good point. It does seem that... 03-25-2007, 09:28 AM

Lalwendë Nice point! So from the point... 03-25-2007, 09:50 AM

Macalaure Hmm, I tried to explain that... 03-25-2007, 09:59 AM

HerenIstarion Tread gently, for you are... 03-25-2007, 10:54 AM

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Lotrelf I'd guess he DESERVED death.... 03-17-2014, 01:34 AM

Galadriel55 Well said! I would say... 03-17-2014, 05:19 AM

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03-24-2007, 12:14 PM

#11

Raynor

Eagle of the Star

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Sarmisegethuza

Posts: 1,058

Raynor has just left Hobbiton.

Quote:

Originally Posted by davem

Nope. This implies that he had almost completely convinced himself that there was nothing to feel guilty about.

But the very fact that he had to come up with excuses, and resort to them time and again shows he has morality.

Quote:

I can. Its not your book, so you can't, I'm afraid, tell me how to read it. And neither can Tolkien. My understanding of Gollum's nature is perfectly logical (though not everyone may agree with it).

Ok, here something more to prove just how inaccurate your position is, in regards to the book itself:

Quote:

Originally Posted by March 11, 3019, Tale of Years, RotK

Gollum visits Shelob, but seeing Frodo asleep nearly repents.

Is this good enough? I somehow doubt it...

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