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Old 01-01-2007, 09:46 PM   #1
The Failed king
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Did Saruman actually get a second chance

hi i was thinking would the valar give him a second chance remembering they gave sauron one
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Old 01-02-2007, 05:59 AM   #2
Raynor
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Sauron didn't actually receive a second chance - he never made it back to Aman, to be judged:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Of the rings of power and the third age, Silmarillion
When Thangorodrim was broken and Morgoth overthrown, Sauron put on his fair hue again and did obeisance to Eonwe the herald of Manwe, and abjured all his evil deeds. And some hold that this was not at first falsely done, but that Sauron in truth repented, if only out of fear, being dismayed by the fall of Morgoth and the great wrath of the Lords of the West. But it was not within the power of Eonwe to pardon those of his own order, and he commanded Sauron to return to Aman and there receive the judgement of Manwe. Then Sauron was ashamed, and he was unwilling to return in humiliation and to receive from the Valar a sentence, it might be, of long servitude in proof of his good faith; for under Morgoth his power had been great. Therefore when Eonwe departed he hid himself in Middle-earth; and he fell back into evil, for the bonds that Morgoth bad laid upon him were very strong.
Concerning Saruman, Unfinished Tales state that:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unfinished Tales, Part Four, Chapter two: The Istari
Whereas Curunir was cast down, and utterly humbled, and perished at last by the hand of an oppressed slave; and his spirit went whithersoever it was doomed to go, and to Middle-earth, whether naked or embodied, came never back.
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Old 01-02-2007, 06:06 AM   #3
Amras Oronar
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Tolkien

Raynor, I just red you're second qoute an hour ago so I shall have to agree with you that he did receive a second chance. And Sauron did get second chance, but he did not took it...
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Old 01-02-2007, 10:37 AM   #4
The Might
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very good quotes Raynor, I share your opinion on this, just wanted to add another quote from LOTR this time:

Quote:
To the dismay of those that stood by, about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. for a moment it wavered, looking to the West, but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing.
The cold wind out of the west makes it pretty clear that the Valar denied him a second chance.
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