Aragorn: King of Gondor? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Meela · 04-23-2003, 03:18 PM

I was flicking through a book earlier, and I came across a family tree. It stated that Elendil had two sons, only these were written as:

---Kings of Gondor.

---Kings of Arnor and Arthedain---Chieftains---Aragorn II

this confused me, as it appears that Aragorn is not the heir to the throne of Gondor, but we all know he is.

I read elsewhere that Anarion, the younger of the sons, was King of Arnor, and I know Isildur was king of Gondor.

But I have also just read that Anarion was in fact joint ruler of Gondor with Isildur, and Isildur is mentioned as the one with contact with Arnor, as he went there with his father to rally the Dunedain.

Now I am in a state of utter confusion over Aragorn's heritage and rulership. Could someone please set me straight? Perhaps it is just the book that stated it incorrectly, but it would be great to know for sure. Thanks.

Also, while I am on the subject of rulership, I heard/read that the Stewards were descendants of Elendil. Is this true? And if so, does that give them right to the throne, like Aragorn? Or is it a distant tie only?

Rumil · 04-23-2003, 05:43 PM

Hmm, lets see if I can sort this out..

Elendil was father of Isildur and Anarion and therefore the 'High King'. He set up a kingdom in Arnor, while in Gondor, Isildur's capitol was Minas Ithil, Anarion's was Minas Arnor.

During the War of the Last Alliance, Minas Ithil was taken by Sauron's forces, Isildir and his family escaped to Arnor to gain Elendil's help and left his son Valandil at Imladris since he was too young to go to war. Now, Elendil and Anarion were both killed in the war. Isildur gave Gondor into the care of Meneldil, son of Anarion, and set off to Arnor. At the disaster of the Gladden Fields he was ambushed and kiled, so the crown of Arnor came to his young son Valandil. I guess officially he could have been viewed as the 'High King' but by the time he had grown up Meneldil was too firmly established in Gondor, anyway at that time it could have seemed sensible to split the kingdom along the obvious geographical lines.

I think the point is that Elendil was accounted King of both Arnor and Gondor. By the time of Aragorn, (a direct descendent of Isildur) the line of Gondor was no more so Aragorn claimed the throne of both Arnor and Gondor, re-uniting the kingdoms.

There was an earlier attempt to reunite the kingdoms but it had failed due to Gondorian unwillingness (and power politics naturally).

I'm not sure of the relationship of the Stewards of the House of Mardil to royalty, but if there was any it must have been very distant, otherwise they would certainly have claimed the throne of Gondor when the line of kings failed.

Hope that makes some sense Meela!

Rynoah, the Overly-Happy · 04-23-2003, 08:14 PM

Quote:

There was an earlier attempt to reunite the kingdoms but it had failed due to Gondorian unwillingness

Yay! Stubbornness! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Thanks for the information, Rumil. I was going nuts trying to find some stuff to explain. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Meela · 04-24-2003, 06:58 AM

Thanks ever so much! That's perfect! I had forgotten some of that stuff, like the two sons each having a capitol, so thanks for refreshing my memory [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Rumil · 04-24-2003, 04:27 PM

btw. Meela and Rynoah, if you want to find out about the failed attempt by the king of Arnor (Arvedui) to rule Gondor, check out the Arvedui thread on the 'Books' forum (you'll have to search I'm afraid as I lack the tech ability to put a link in). [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Also the Appendices to LoTR contain the relevant info, even our very own Malbeth the Seer was involved!

Voralphion · 04-27-2003, 09:05 PM

My recollection is that it says that the stewards were descendants of Elros not descendants of Elendil. If they were descended from elendil they could've claimed the throne and not only be stewards.

Meela · 04-27-2003, 09:15 PM

But Elendil was the son of Elros... or do you mean there was a different son?

the real findorfin · 04-28-2003, 08:43 AM

Elendil was not the son of Elros!

There was about 20 generations in between.

I'm not sure of the Steward lineage, but it is possible that they are descendants of Elros, without being descendants of Elendil, perhaps the descendants of a Lord of Andunie.

EDIT: WOW, 500 posts!

[ April 28, 2003: Message edited by: the real findorfin ]

Meela · 04-28-2003, 01:46 PM

20... wow, that puts a whole new perspective on everything! Thanks!

gilraën · 04-28-2003, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Steward of Gondor
Title of the rulers of the South-kingdom after the Kings

Originally the honorary title of the chief counsellor to the King of Gondor. The title became hereditary from the time of Steward Pelendur of the House of Húrin. After the loss of King Eärnur in Minas Morgul, Mardil Voronwë became the first Ruling Steward, and his descendants ruled Gondor until the time of Denethor II, when Aragorn II Elessar was crowned as King of the Reunited Kingdom.

Well I couldn't say it better myself. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Sillabub · 05-17-2003, 11:12 AM

I dunno, but as a Gondorian I would personally prefer Boromir as a king instead of Aragorn. Boromir has more character, and I don't think he would be as arrogant to face off an ENTIRE army of orcs by himself with only a sword. Plus, Boromir seems to care for the littler people (such as Pippin) whereas Aragorn seems to only take care of Frodo, whereas Pippin can't defend himself at all and Frodo gets all the attention anyways. So, as I said, Boromir would be my preferance for the king of Gondor.

Meela · 05-17-2003, 01:17 PM

I would love to see Boromir as future king. Denethor has to have a shot first of course.

04-23-2003, 03:18 PM	#1
Meela Denethor's True Love Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mirkwood. With Thranduil... swoon Posts: 2,049	Aragorn: King of Gondor? I was flicking through a book earlier, and I came across a family tree. It stated that Elendil had two sons, only these were written as: ---Kings of Gondor. ---Kings of Arnor and Arthedain---Chieftains---Aragorn II this confused me, as it appears that Aragorn is not the heir to the throne of Gondor, but we all know he is. I read elsewhere that Anarion, the younger of the sons, was King of Arnor, and I know Isildur was king of Gondor. But I have also just read that Anarion was in fact joint ruler of Gondor with Isildur, and Isildur is mentioned as the one with contact with Arnor, as he went there with his father to rally the Dunedain. Now I am in a state of utter confusion over Aragorn's heritage and rulership. Could someone please set me straight? Perhaps it is just the book that stated it incorrectly, but it would be great to know for sure. Thanks. Also, while I am on the subject of rulership, I heard/read that the Stewards were descendants of Elendil. Is this true? And if so, does that give them right to the throne, like Aragorn? Or is it a distant tie only? __________________ 'The Hobbit' 1st impressions: 1. Thorin is hot... Oh god, I fancy a dwarf. 2. Thranduil is hotter. 3. Is that... Figwit! 4. Does Elijah Wood never age? 2nd: It's all about Fili & Kili, really. 3rd: BARD! OMG, Bard.

04-23-2003, 05:43 PM	#2
Rumil Sage & Onions Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Britain Posts: 894	Hmm, lets see if I can sort this out.. Elendil was father of Isildur and Anarion and therefore the 'High King'. He set up a kingdom in Arnor, while in Gondor, Isildur's capitol was Minas Ithil, Anarion's was Minas Arnor. During the War of the Last Alliance, Minas Ithil was taken by Sauron's forces, Isildir and his family escaped to Arnor to gain Elendil's help and left his son Valandil at Imladris since he was too young to go to war. Now, Elendil and Anarion were both killed in the war. Isildur gave Gondor into the care of Meneldil, son of Anarion, and set off to Arnor. At the disaster of the Gladden Fields he was ambushed and kiled, so the crown of Arnor came to his young son Valandil. I guess officially he could have been viewed as the 'High King' but by the time he had grown up Meneldil was too firmly established in Gondor, anyway at that time it could have seemed sensible to split the kingdom along the obvious geographical lines. I think the point is that Elendil was accounted King of both Arnor and Gondor. By the time of Aragorn, (a direct descendent of Isildur) the line of Gondor was no more so Aragorn claimed the throne of both Arnor and Gondor, re-uniting the kingdoms. There was an earlier attempt to reunite the kingdoms but it had failed due to Gondorian unwillingness (and power politics naturally). I'm not sure of the relationship of the Stewards of the House of Mardil to royalty, but if there was any it must have been very distant, otherwise they would certainly have claimed the throne of Gondor when the line of kings failed. Hope that makes some sense Meela! __________________ Rumil of Coedhirion

04-24-2003, 06:58 AM	#4
Meela Denethor's True Love Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mirkwood. With Thranduil... swoon Posts: 2,049	Thanks ever so much! That's perfect! I had forgotten some of that stuff, like the two sons each having a capitol, so thanks for refreshing my memory [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ 'The Hobbit' 1st impressions: 1. Thorin is hot... Oh god, I fancy a dwarf. 2. Thranduil is hotter. 3. Is that... Figwit! 4. Does Elijah Wood never age? 2nd: It's all about Fili & Kili, really. 3rd: BARD! OMG, Bard.

04-24-2003, 04:27 PM	#5
Rumil Sage & Onions Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Britain Posts: 894	btw. Meela and Rynoah, if you want to find out about the failed attempt by the king of Arnor (Arvedui) to rule Gondor, check out the Arvedui thread on the 'Books' forum (you'll have to search I'm afraid as I lack the tech ability to put a link in). [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] Also the Appendices to LoTR contain the relevant info, even our very own Malbeth the Seer was involved! __________________ Rumil of Coedhirion

04-27-2003, 09:05 PM	#6
Voralphion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sharkey's End Posts: 267	My recollection is that it says that the stewards were descendants of Elros not descendants of Elendil. If they were descended from elendil they could've claimed the throne and not only be stewards. __________________ His sword was long his lance was keen His shining helm afar was seen The countless stars of heavens field Were mirrored in his silver shield

04-27-2003, 09:15 PM	#7
Meela Denethor's True Love Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mirkwood. With Thranduil... swoon Posts: 2,049	But Elendil was the son of Elros... or do you mean there was a different son? __________________ 'The Hobbit' 1st impressions: 1. Thorin is hot... Oh god, I fancy a dwarf. 2. Thranduil is hotter. 3. Is that... Figwit! 4. Does Elijah Wood never age? 2nd: It's all about Fili & Kili, really. 3rd: BARD! OMG, Bard.

04-28-2003, 08:43 AM	#8
the real findorfin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 514	Elendil was not the son of Elros! There was about 20 generations in between. I'm not sure of the Steward lineage, but it is possible that they are descendants of Elros, without being descendants of Elendil, perhaps the descendants of a Lord of Andunie. EDIT: WOW, 500 posts! [ April 28, 2003: Message edited by: the real findorfin ] __________________ Legends of Middle Earth

04-28-2003, 01:46 PM	#9
Meela Denethor's True Love Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mirkwood. With Thranduil... swoon Posts: 2,049	20... wow, that puts a whole new perspective on everything! Thanks! __________________ 'The Hobbit' 1st impressions: 1. Thorin is hot... Oh god, I fancy a dwarf. 2. Thranduil is hotter. 3. Is that... Figwit! 4. Does Elijah Wood never age? 2nd: It's all about Fili & Kili, really. 3rd: BARD! OMG, Bard.

05-17-2003, 11:12 AM	#11
Sillabub Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: GONDOR!! Posts: 138	I dunno, but as a Gondorian I would personally prefer Boromir as a king instead of Aragorn. Boromir has more character, and I don't think he would be as arrogant to face off an ENTIRE army of orcs by himself with only a sword. Plus, Boromir seems to care for the littler people (such as Pippin) whereas Aragorn seems to only take care of Frodo, whereas Pippin can't defend himself at all and Frodo gets all the attention anyways. So, as I said, Boromir would be my preferance for the king of Gondor. __________________ They were holding umbrellas. Not just any umbrellas- BLACK umbrellas. Not just ANY black umbrellas- these were...(knuckle-biting time) the BLACK UMBRELLAS OF DEATH!!!!! cue sinister music

05-17-2003, 01:17 PM	#12
Meela Denethor's True Love Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mirkwood. With Thranduil... swoon Posts: 2,049	I would love to see Boromir as future king. Denethor has to have a shot first of course. __________________ 'The Hobbit' 1st impressions: 1. Thorin is hot... Oh god, I fancy a dwarf. 2. Thranduil is hotter. 3. Is that... Figwit! 4. Does Elijah Wood never age? 2nd: It's all about Fili & Kili, really. 3rd: BARD! OMG, Bard.