Gothmog? - Page 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 12-31-2003, 02:32 PM

Does anyone have a definition of 'lietenant'?

(apologies if that is the wrong spelling)

Olorin_TLA · 01-01-2004, 06:56 PM

Two, actually.

My Oxford Dictionary sayeth thus:

The first defniniton gives draws fom an appendix of the dictionary, which list the ranks of the military (which would have been the same in Tolkien's life too).
In both British and US armies, navies and air forces, leiutenants are a rank below captain.

Therefore, Captain is superiro to Leiutenant.

But:

It has another definition, which is stated to be an older (actually in use at the time of the britihs empire) use of the word (so Tolkien would have been familiar with it, being as he was The Anglo-Saxon Man) - which has a leiutenant as being a right-hand man, someone ruling territory/people in the name of the sovereign, or as being the next-in-command.

Seeing as the Mouth of Sauron says that Isengard will be rebuilt, and there Sauron's leiutenant will dwell (and so be "in charge" of the lands West of Anduin)- not Saruman, but one more worthy of trust - and his eyes light up with greed - it seems that leiutenant in this case means the deputy, the 2nd in command, and so it can be applied to all of LotR.

So, since Morugl is the Witch King's city, Gothomg would be his 2nd in command, which is why he takes over.

12-31-2003, 02:32 PM	#41
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Does anyone have a definition of 'lietenant'? (apologies if that is the wrong spelling) __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

01-01-2004, 06:56 PM	#42
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	Two, actually. My Oxford Dictionary sayeth thus: The first defniniton gives draws fom an appendix of the dictionary, which list the ranks of the military (which would have been the same in Tolkien's life too). In both British and US armies, navies and air forces, leiutenants are a rank below captain. Therefore, Captain is superiro to Leiutenant. But: It has another definition, which is stated to be an older (actually in use at the time of the britihs empire) use of the word (so Tolkien would have been familiar with it, being as he was The Anglo-Saxon Man) - which has a leiutenant as being a right-hand man, someone ruling territory/people in the name of the sovereign, or as being the next-in-command. Seeing as the Mouth of Sauron says that Isengard will be rebuilt, and there Sauron's leiutenant will dwell (and so be "in charge" of the lands West of Anduin)- not Saruman, but one more worthy of trust - and his eyes light up with greed - it seems that leiutenant in this case means the deputy, the 2nd in command, and so it can be applied to all of LotR. So, since Morugl is the Witch King's city, Gothomg would be his 2nd in command, which is why he takes over. __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!"