Sam and The Moon

[MatthewM]

In Book IV, as Sam and Frodo tackle the Emyn Muil, the two hobbits glance at the Moon. I don't remember the exact quote, but Sam ponders that it must have been created with some force by the Elves. Now I haven't read the Silmarillion, so does this have something to do with the shaping of Middle-earth and Eru?

[Valier]

Kinda.... After Melkor and Ungoliant killed the 2 trees of Valinor. Yavanna tried to heal the trees to no avail. Telperion bore 1 last silver flower, Laurelin 1 single fruit. Yavanna took these and had vessels made for them. They were made into lamps of heaven, to hinder the deeds of Melkor. There is more of course....I suggest you do read the Sil, it's great.

[davem]

This is the basic story:

It is told that even as Feanor and Fingolfin stood before Manwe there came the mingling of the lights, when both Trees were shining, and the silent city of Valmar was filled with a radiance of silver and gold. And in that very hour Melkor and Ungoliant came hastening over the fields of Valinor, as the shadow of a black cloud upon the wind fleets over the sunlit earth; and they came before the green mound Ezellohar. Then the Unlight of Ungoliant rose up even to the roots of the Trees, and Melkor sprang upon the mound; and with his black spear he smote each Tree to its core, wounded them deep, and their sap poured forth as it were their blood, and was spilled upon the ground. But Ungoliant sucked it up, and going then from Tree to Tree she set her black beak to their wounds, till they were drained; and the poison of Death that was in her went into their tissues and withered them, root, branch, and leaf; and they died. And still she thirsted, and going to the Wells of Varda she drank them dry; but Ungoliant belched forth black vapours as she drank, and swelled to a shape so vast and hideous that Melkor was afraid.

So the great darkness fell upon Valinor. ... (The Silmarillion: 'The Darkening of Valinor')

Then Manwe bade Yavanna and Nienna to put forth all their powers of growth and healing; and they put forth all their powers upon the Trees. But the tears of Nienna availed not to heal their mortal wounds; and for a long while Yavanna sang alone in the shadows. Yet even as hope failed and her song faltered, Telperion bore at last upon a leafless bough one great flower of silver, and Laurelin a single fruit of gold.
These Yavanna took; and then the Trees died, and their lifeless stems stand yet in Valinor, a memorial of vanished joy. But the flower and the fruit Yavanna gave to Aule, and Manwe hallowed them, and Aule and his people made vessels to hold them and preserve their radiance: as is said in the Narsilion, the Song of the Sun and Moon. These vessels the Valar gave to Varda, that they might become lamps of heaven, outshining the ancient stars, being nearer to Arda; and she gave them power to traverse the lower regions of Ilmen, and set them to voyage upon appointed courses above the girdle of the Earth from the West unto the East and to return.

Isil the Sheen the Vanyar of old named the Moon, flower of Telperion in Valinor; and Anar the Fire-golden, fruit of Laurelin, they named the Sun. But the Noldor named them also Rana, the Wayward, and Vasa, the Heart of Fire, that awakens and consumes; for the Sun was set as a sign for the awakening of Men and the waning of the Elves, but the Moon cherishes their memory. (The Silmarillion: 'Of the Sun & Moon)

[MatthewM]

Wow, that's great. Thanks! A lot of interesting info...I will eventually get around to reading the Silmarillion.

So if I'm getting this right, the Sun and Moon were evolved forms essentially of the two surviving flowers?

[MatthewM]

?

[Valier]

They were placed in vessels, so they are not quite evolved....They are within. And it was a flower and a fruit.

[MatthewM]

Excellent, thanks.

[Alcarin]

Wow that's interesting. Never thought about that!