Does Tolkien indirectly promotes interest in occult practices? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

09-27-2002, 03:00 PM

The Rings of Power. Tolkien's readers feel obsession. Many of them wish they had lived in the Middle Earth. They want to know more.
There are (undeliberate?) subtle hints on some laws of the spiritual world in Tolkien's books. This is the world of Spiritual Will. It can be studied. Then the "real life" will become not less interesting as any fantasy book.

Arwen Imladris · 09-27-2002, 03:14 PM

O.K., I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to get at here.

Well, I know that for certain he would not perposly support occult practices. His books are good, so people want to know more. He did not intend them to go crazy over it.

TolkienGurl · 09-27-2002, 03:21 PM

[img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] No. Nice idea of a topic but all LOTR really is is a good story and everyone is trying to interpret things from it that do not exist! Besides why would a devout Catholic man try to promote people to practice the occult? Why not let this just be what it is - a good story not to be weighed down by debate. I'm not against debate, but it just seems that's what everybody's doing with every topic these days. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
~TolkienGurl [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

09-27-2002, 03:37 PM

To clarify the point - it has not been suggested that JRRT wanted the readers to go in for occult practices or to get obsessed by the books.
The suggestion is that the books themselves might trigger interest in studying the spiritual world and its rules by means of various existing practices. Maybe the used word "occult" sounds negative - my apologies to those offended.

The-Elf-Herself · 09-27-2002, 05:57 PM

Good question, Elronda. I guess it is all depends on how easily a person is moved into action by reading a book and what their personality/interests are already like. For example, someone who's naturally bent towards the spiritual stuff is more likely to really get into other stuff after reading Tolkien than someone who is not. Adversely, someone who is more grounded and practical(I have a few friends like this) are more likely to read the book, enjoy it, and then set it aside. It's not that they dislike it, they just moved onto other stuff. I fall into a third category: those who have a million in-depth interests in just about everything(hey, maybe THAT'S why I have no free time [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] ). By the way, before ANYONE gets offended, these are generalities, so if you don't fall into a category, congratulations! You're unique(as everyone is [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] ).

**lindil** · 09-28-2002, 07:12 AM

Very good question and I must answer Yes.

Also I would say that it will possibly promote intrest in religion in general and traditional Christianity [ meaning Anglican,Roman Catholic and/or Orthodox Chritianity] in particular.

Where one will go w/ it [ assuming one does anything at all] will be a matter of sensitivity and wisdom.

I looked into both occult and Christianity rather deeply as a result quite largely of JRRT and found that 'magic' even of the so called 'white' variety as in the Golden Dawn [ this was before the wicca/neo-pagan explosion of the mid 80's and 90's] as based on a dubious urge to 'control' things as opposed to humbly finding one's place in God's order.

I could go on and on but I will resist the urge.

Very good and imortant topic Elronda, I would actually encourage it to be moved to the Books [ if estelyn and co. are watching ] just a thought.

Onemore thing if someone wants to see where a life immersed in Occultism can lead read up on Aleister Crowley. Granted not everyone becomes a heroin addicted megalomaniac, for instance his student Israel Regardie also got into Reichian and Analytical therapy [ largely as result of trying to get over his time as secretary Crowley]and came out sober but still a GD magician. so much for not going on and on...

09-27-2002, 03:00 PM	#1
Elronda Guest Posts: n/a	Does Tolkien indirectly promotes interest in occult practices? The Rings of Power. Tolkien's readers feel obsession. Many of them wish they had lived in the Middle Earth. They want to know more. There are (undeliberate?) subtle hints on some laws of the spiritual world in Tolkien's books. This is the world of Spiritual Will. It can be studied. Then the "real life" will become not less interesting as any fantasy book.

09-27-2002, 03:14 PM	#2
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	O.K., I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to get at here. Well, I know that for certain he would not perposly support occult practices. His books are good, so people want to know more. He did not intend them to go crazy over it. __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

09-27-2002, 03:21 PM	#3
TolkienGurl Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 637	[img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] No. Nice idea of a topic but all LOTR really is is a good story and everyone is trying to interpret things from it that do not exist! Besides why would a devout Catholic man try to promote people to practice the occult? Why not let this just be what it is - a good story not to be weighed down by debate. I'm not against debate, but it just seems that's what everybody's doing with every topic these days. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] ~TolkienGurl [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Hopes fail. An end comes. We have only a little time to wait now. We are lost in ruin and downfall and there is no escape. -Frodo My Livejournal

09-27-2002, 05:57 PM	#5
The-Elf-Herself Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mithlond Posts: 74	Good question, Elronda. I guess it is all depends on how easily a person is moved into action by reading a book and what their personality/interests are already like. For example, someone who's naturally bent towards the spiritual stuff is more likely to really get into other stuff after reading Tolkien than someone who is not. Adversely, someone who is more grounded and practical(I have a few friends like this) are more likely to read the book, enjoy it, and then set it aside. It's not that they dislike it, they just moved onto other stuff. I fall into a third category: those who have a million in-depth interests in just about everything(hey, maybe THAT'S why I have no free time [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] ). By the way, before ANYONE gets offended, these are generalities, so if you don't fall into a category, congratulations! You're unique(as everyone is [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] ). __________________ Go here http://www.geocities.com/sunlit_rain/home_page for songs translated into elvish.~Eruantale Aranìs Oronlamba~

09-28-2002, 07:12 AM	#6
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	Very good question and I must answer Yes. Also I would say that it will possibly promote intrest in religion in general and traditional Christianity [ meaning Anglican,Roman Catholic and/or Orthodox Chritianity] in particular. Where one will go w/ it [ assuming one does anything at all] will be a matter of sensitivity and wisdom. I looked into both occult and Christianity rather deeply as a result quite largely of JRRT and found that 'magic' even of the so called 'white' variety as in the Golden Dawn [ this was before the wicca/neo-pagan explosion of the mid 80's and 90's] as based on a dubious urge to 'control' things as opposed to humbly finding one's place in God's order. I could go on and on but I will resist the urge. Very good and imortant topic Elronda, I would actually encourage it to be moved to the Books [ if estelyn and co. are watching ] just a thought. Onemore thing if someone wants to see where a life immersed in Occultism can lead read up on Aleister Crowley. Granted not everyone becomes a heroin addicted megalomaniac, for instance his student Israel Regardie also got into Reichian and Analytical therapy [ largely as result of trying to get over his time as secretary Crowley]and came out sober but still a GD magician. so much for not going on and on... __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

09-27-2002, 03:37 PM	#4
Elronda Guest Posts: n/a	To clarify the point - it has not been suggested that JRRT wanted the readers to go in for occult practices or to get obsessed by the books. The suggestion is that the books themselves might trigger interest in studying the spiritual world and its rules by means of various existing practices. Maybe the used word "occult" sounds negative - my apologies to those offended.