Parallels in LotR - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Thinlómien · 06-12-2006, 04:37 AM

***First, a warning: I might be using the word parallel wrong, please correct me if I'm doing so.***

Have you ever noticed how some themes or characters repeatedly appear in the LotR?

Have you noticed any similarities, or parallels between things or persons as the story goes on? Or any things or persons, that emphasise/show different sides of a matter?

What do you think of the following:

- Moria and Shelob's Lair/Paths of the Dead. Two times underground, the latter is the worse. shelob's Lair and the Paths of the dead almost make Moria feel a nice place. Moria, though it's dark is spacious and there's air. Shelob's Lair, fo instance is a place where it is dark and breathing is very difficult. Also, it's much scarier.

- Galadriel and Shelob. Both mighty women, queens of some sort. Shelob's evilness emphsises Galadriel's goodness and the other way around.

- Aragorn's and Faramir's threats. This just occured to me when I was reading the LotR. Both threaten the hobbits about the Ring. (Aragorn in Bree, Faramir in Henneth Annûn) And they do it in a very similar situation and way. Aragorn is clearly not seriously going to take the Ring, only to scare the hobbits, but Faramir is a different case. (As a subtopic I'd like to hear your opinions on this; was Faramir only playing on the hobbits' expense, or did the lure of the Ring cross his mind?)

- Rivendell and Lorien. Both belonging to the group of the few Elven havens remaining, both governed by an elven ring -bearer. I see the parallels and the little differences in two things; Rivendell's openness for travellers and the well guarded Lorien. Also, Rivendell is governed by a very wise man, and Lorien is governed by a very wise woman. (This might have been discussed in somewhere, but as second subtopic, do you think Elrond's and Galadriel's genders have anything to do with the security approach?)

- Théoden and Denethor. Both rulers of a great country, another of them wise, valiant and gentle, another cunning, proud and noble.

- Sméagol and Gollum. No reson to explain here, is there?

Of course there is endlessly of them and I have just listed the few first that came into my mind.

Feel free to add to the list and explain. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

Another question is that is Tolkien intentionally using this tactic? Do you think he overuses it?

I think he uses it intentionally, but few of the minor parallels are probably unintentional. I think that his skill in writing came from a gut-feeling as much as from the knowledge of words and how to use them. Some might disagree with me here.

For the overusage I'd say no. The parallels are nearly invisble to a careless reader.

(And the answer is no, I didn't make this all up by myself. I owe big thanks to an article published in Legolas (the magazine of the Finnish Tolkien society) written by a Finnish tolkienist Emmi Itäranta. I read the article a few years ago and admit stealing the whole parallel-idea, Moria and Shelob's Lair plus Galadriel and Shelob - the things I still remember - from it.)

ninja91 · 06-12-2006, 05:25 AM

Frodo and Sam: Although they are both hobbits, their attitudes change throughout the story. At first, they are both eager to get rid of it, but by the end, Frodo has defied Sam many times. For example, Gollum's situation. Frodo let him come along even though Sam advised him not to. They are very close friends throughout the epic, but by the end, Sam is desperate to destroy it, and Frodo is taken over by it. He doesnt want to destroy it anymore. Sam is the uncorrupted hobbit, whereas Frodo has been taken over by it.

Raynor · 06-12-2006, 09:57 AM

Quote:

He doesnt want to destroy it anymore. Sam is the uncorrupted hobbit, whereas Frodo has been taken over by it.

Well, how long did Sam wear it? Also, he doesn't seem that much happy when relinquishing the ring back to Frodo (will look after the quote when I get home...).

ninja91 · 06-12-2006, 01:42 PM

Whoops. Raynor is right.

Anyway, another is Gandalf and Saruman. They are totally foil characters. Gandalf is the wizard who is dedicated to the cause of good and the destruction of the ring, and Saruman is the wizard who has turned to evil and seeks to create his own all-powerful ring.

Thinlómien · 06-13-2006, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninja91

Anyway, another is Gandalf and Saruman. They are totally foil characters. Gandalf is the wizard who is dedicated to the cause of good and the destruction of the ring, and Saruman is the wizard who has turned to evil and seeks to create his own all-powerful ring.

A good point.

I also see Tom Bombadil and Treebeard as a some kind of parallel.

ninja91 · 06-14-2006, 05:29 AM

What about Eomer and Wormtongue? Eomer is a just and loyal soldier to Theoden, and would never betray him. Wormtongue, although he might have regretted what he did in the end, still betrayed his king and helped Saruman pour his influence over him.

Raynor · 06-15-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninja91

What about Eomer and Wormtongue? Eomer is a just and loyal soldier to Theoden, and would never betray him. Wormtongue, although he might have regretted what he did in the end, still betrayed his king and helped Saruman pour his influence over him.

I would say that a more clear-cut parallel between servants would be Beregond-Wormtongue (after all, Eomer was a king's son), and betrayal is involved in both their cases, but in different lights. After they play their parts, one rises and the other one falls, each following the destiny of their respective masters.

Ar-Pharazon · 06-15-2006, 10:20 PM

If you really want to draw parallels, how about between the two king’s sons. Both Denethor and Theoden loose their more cherished sons in Boromir and Theodred, and their copeing is shown through their treatment of their second son or adopted son in Faramir and Eomer.

Thinlómien · 06-16-2006, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninja91

What about Eomer and Wormtongue? Eomer is a just and loyal soldier to Theoden, and would never betray him. Wormtongue, although he might have regretted what he did in the end, still betrayed his king and helped Saruman pour his influence over him.

I think rather Wormtongue and Gandalf are parallels; the bad and the good advisor.

Wiscott · 06-16-2006, 09:07 AM

I think there needs to be a distinction in this discussion between characters/things that parallel each other and characters/things that oppose each other.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but two parallel characters (in my mind anyway) are similar to each other, and by the striking similarity (of attitude or action) emphasize that attitude or action in each other. A good example of this kind of relationship would be the aformentioned pair of Aragorn and Faramir in how they "threaten" the hobbits (on a side note, I would say that Faramir was never threatening: he was merely thinking and weighing consequences in his mind in a practical way).

On the other hand, some of the examples given are really contrasts, not what I would call parallels. The distinction (again, in my mind at least) is more like the one between parallel lines and perpendicular lines. Example: Galadriel and Shelob are pretty much complete opposites in most areas, and so those areas which are contrasting between the two are emphasized in our minds.

I know that nobody here doesn't see the distinction in the posts, but it would make it a bit easier if you would include in a post whether you mean to contrast or compare. Thanks!

Child of the 7th Age · 06-19-2006, 01:21 AM

You might also want to look at this thread: Paired characters in Lord of the Rings by Fordim

06-12-2006, 04:37 AM	#1
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	Parallels in LotR *First, a warning: I might be using the word parallel wrong, please correct me if I'm doing so.* Have you ever noticed how some themes or characters repeatedly appear in the LotR? Have you noticed any similarities, or parallels between things or persons as the story goes on? Or any things or persons, that emphasise/show different sides of a matter? What do you think of the following: - Moria and Shelob's Lair/Paths of the Dead. Two times underground, the latter is the worse. shelob's Lair and the Paths of the dead almost make Moria feel a nice place. Moria, though it's dark is spacious and there's air. Shelob's Lair, fo instance is a place where it is dark and breathing is very difficult. Also, it's much scarier. - Galadriel and Shelob. Both mighty women, queens of some sort. Shelob's evilness emphsises Galadriel's goodness and the other way around. - Aragorn's and Faramir's threats. This just occured to me when I was reading the LotR. Both threaten the hobbits about the Ring. (Aragorn in Bree, Faramir in Henneth Annûn) And they do it in a very similar situation and way. Aragorn is clearly not seriously going to take the Ring, only to scare the hobbits, but Faramir is a different case. (As a subtopic I'd like to hear your opinions on this; was Faramir only playing on the hobbits' expense, or did the lure of the Ring cross his mind?) - Rivendell and Lorien. Both belonging to the group of the few Elven havens remaining, both governed by an elven ring -bearer. I see the parallels and the little differences in two things; Rivendell's openness for travellers and the well guarded Lorien. Also, Rivendell is governed by a very wise man, and Lorien is governed by a very wise woman. (This might have been discussed in somewhere, but as second subtopic, do you think Elrond's and Galadriel's genders have anything to do with the security approach?) - Théoden and Denethor. Both rulers of a great country, another of them wise, valiant and gentle, another cunning, proud and noble. - Sméagol and Gollum. No reson to explain here, is there? Of course there is endlessly of them and I have just listed the few first that came into my mind. Feel free to add to the list and explain. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. Another question is that is Tolkien intentionally using this tactic? Do you think he overuses it? I think he uses it intentionally, but few of the minor parallels are probably unintentional. I think that his skill in writing came from a gut-feeling as much as from the knowledge of words and how to use them. Some might disagree with me here. For the overusage I'd say no. The parallels are nearly invisble to a careless reader. (And the answer is no, I didn't make this all up by myself. I owe big thanks to an article published in Legolas (the magazine of the Finnish Tolkien society) written by a Finnish tolkienist Emmi Itäranta. I read the article a few years ago and admit stealing the whole parallel-idea, Moria and Shelob's Lair plus Galadriel and Shelob - the things I still remember - from it.) __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

06-15-2006, 10:20 PM	#8
Ar-Pharazon Pile O'Bones Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 15	If you really want to draw parallels, how about between the two king’s sons. Both Denethor and Theoden loose their more cherished sons in Boromir and Theodred, and their copeing is shown through their treatment of their second son or adopted son in Faramir and Eomer. __________________ Do I seem fair but feel foul or do I seem foul but feel fair? Ah the questions of life.

06-16-2006, 09:07 AM	#10
Wiscott Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Under the Sea Posts: 11	I think there needs to be a distinction in this discussion between characters/things that parallel each other and characters/things that oppose each other. Correct me if I'm wrong, but two parallel characters (in my mind anyway) are similar to each other, and by the striking similarity (of attitude or action) emphasize that attitude or action in each other. A good example of this kind of relationship would be the aformentioned pair of Aragorn and Faramir in how they "threaten" the hobbits (on a side note, I would say that Faramir was never threatening: he was merely thinking and weighing consequences in his mind in a practical way). On the other hand, some of the examples given are really contrasts, not what I would call parallels. The distinction (again, in my mind at least) is more like the one between parallel lines and perpendicular lines. Example: Galadriel and Shelob are pretty much complete opposites in most areas, and so those areas which are contrasting between the two are emphasized in our minds. I know that nobody here doesn't see the distinction in the posts, but it would make it a bit easier if you would include in a post whether you mean to contrast or compare. Thanks! __________________ "Po-ta-toes. Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick-'em-in-a-stew." -Samwise Gamgee

06-19-2006, 01:21 AM	#11
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	You might also want to look at this thread: Paired characters in Lord of the Rings by Fordim __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.