Silmarillion=Finished - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Vardamar · 04-08-2003, 10:55 AM

Well I finally finished the Silmarillion. A wonderful book, I thought at first that it would be similar to the LOTR series. Boy was I wrong. The Sil has much more narrative than in LOTR. Now I have two questions that maybe you can answer.

1. Glorfindel was able to kill a Balrog, at the cost of his own life.
Mithrandir also killed a Balrog at the cost of his own life.

Keep in mind that Mithrandir wore Narya, and even with the rings added power died. Does this mean that the Istari were just as powerful as the early Elves?

2. In the last part of the Sil, its says this:

Quote:

But when all these things were done, and the Heir of Isildur had taken up the lordship of Men, and the dominion of the West had passed to him, then it was made plain that the power of the Three Rings also was ended, and to the Firstborn the world grew old and grey.

Grew old and grey? Am I reading this wrong? The immortality of the Elves should have nothing to do with the power of the rings. Maybe it just means that their power was gone and they were weary of Middle Earth.

Eruanna · 04-08-2003, 01:34 PM

I think it just means that the Elves grew weary of Middle Earth, it had become dull and grey and joyless for them. The rings and their keepers had gone to the Undying Lands and most of the Elves, who had not already left, went too.
Their immortality did not depend on any of the rings, it was a gift from Eru. The Firstborn were meant to live for as long as Arda existed.

Congrats on finishing The Silmarillion, by the way. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Nearly forgot your first point. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

In Unfinished Tales there is a section on the Istari. It says (among many things) that they were emissaries of the Valar, with high powers, sent to M.E. with Eru's permission, in order to resist Sauron. It follows then that they would be more powerful than the early Elves.

[ April 08, 2003: Message edited by: Eruanna ]

**lindil** · 04-08-2003, 01:53 PM

'Does this mean that the Istari were just as powerful as the early Elves?'

No, it means Balrogs were tough critters.

They too were incarnated Maiar like the Istari, Glorfindel and Ecthelion may have killed Balrogs, but they were unusual [and long lauded]in that. Many, many more Elves were killed by Balrogs than the reverse. No matter which strata of the Legendarium you read.

re: 2 - The High Elves would never truly be content outside of Valinor and the Undying Lands they were [at least the original Exiles] able to by dwelling in Rivendell near Vilya and Lothlorien near Nenya [and prior to that in Lindon with Gil-Glalad] been able to experience something of the timelessness and unfading nature of Aman, but at the passing of the power of the Rings, the technology that held time somewhat at bay was removed and maybe similar to the Fellowship departing Lothlorien back into the cold grey world, so had also Middle-Earth become to them...

Vardamar allow me to echo Eruanna in congratulating you! May you enjoy it many more times, and also enjoy all of th Silmarillion that was left out and is scattered throughout HoM-E and UT.

[ April 08, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]

Deathwail · 04-08-2003, 02:15 PM

I think its safe to say when Gandalf returned as the White wizard he was one of the most powerful beings in Middle Earth ( Valinor not being part of ME at that time),he tells one of the hobbits only by coming face to face with Sauron would the hobbit meet a more dangerous foe.
Elf Lords where bad a$$ for sure but not really in that kind of league.
Btw congrats on finishing the Sil,it opens up a whole new world huh. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

04-08-2003, 01:34 PM	#2
Eruanna Memento Mori Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Past The Point Of No Return Posts: 1,117	I think it just means that the Elves grew weary of Middle Earth, it had become dull and grey and joyless for them. The rings and their keepers had gone to the Undying Lands and most of the Elves, who had not already left, went too. Their immortality did not depend on any of the rings, it was a gift from Eru. The Firstborn were meant to live for as long as Arda existed. Congrats on finishing The Silmarillion, by the way. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Nearly forgot your first point. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] In Unfinished Tales there is a section on the Istari. It says (among many things) that they were emissaries of the Valar, with high powers, sent to M.E. with Eru's permission, in order to resist Sauron. It follows then that they would be more powerful than the early Elves. [ April 08, 2003: Message edited by: Eruanna ] __________________ "Remember, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."

04-08-2003, 01:53 PM	#3
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	'Does this mean that the Istari were just as powerful as the early Elves?' No, it means Balrogs were tough critters. They too were incarnated Maiar like the Istari, Glorfindel and Ecthelion may have killed Balrogs, but they were unusual [and long lauded]in that. Many, many more Elves were killed by Balrogs than the reverse. No matter which strata of the Legendarium you read. re: 2 - The High Elves would never truly be content outside of Valinor and the Undying Lands they were [at least the original Exiles] able to by dwelling in Rivendell near Vilya and Lothlorien near Nenya [and prior to that in Lindon with Gil-Glalad] been able to experience something of the timelessness and unfading nature of Aman, but at the passing of the power of the Rings, the technology that held time somewhat at bay was removed and maybe similar to the Fellowship departing Lothlorien back into the cold grey world, so had also Middle-Earth become to them... Vardamar allow me to echo Eruanna in congratulating you! May you enjoy it many more times, and also enjoy all of th Silmarillion that was left out and is scattered throughout HoM-E and UT. [ April 08, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ] __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

04-08-2003, 02:15 PM	#4
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	I think its safe to say when Gandalf returned as the White wizard he was one of the most powerful beings in Middle Earth ( Valinor not being part of ME at that time),he tells one of the hobbits only by coming face to face with Sauron would the hobbit meet a more dangerous foe. Elf Lords where bad a$$ for sure but not really in that kind of league. Btw congrats on finishing the Sil,it opens up a whole new world huh. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ He who arises in Might.