are there she orcs?? - Page 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Orcrist · 06-22-2004, 09:13 PM

Sauron could have made orcs the way Saruman made Uruk-hai. He just breeds them in Barad-Dur. You know, like the birthing pits in the movie. There were no female Uruk-hai(I don't think) Actually, I've been thinking. Did Saruman or Sauron make Uruk-hai first? THe movie makes it seem like Saruman made them first. At little off the topic but it's an interesting point.

Son of Númenor · 06-22-2004, 09:26 PM

Sauron, I believe, bred the Uruk-hai before Saruman. If there were female orcs (which I have no real doubt there were), there were definitely female Uruks.

kboleen · 06-23-2004, 01:49 AM

I'm not positive Sauron created (for lack of a better word) the Uruks, but I do know Saruman did NOT create them as the movie implies. They first appeared out of Mordor approxiamatly 500 years before the events of the Lord of the Rings.

The Only Real Estel · 06-23-2004, 03:44 PM

kboleen: And what are the facts that you know of that prove that Saruman didn't breed Uruk-Hai the way he did in the movie? I don't doubt that he might've bred them differently, but I've still seen no concrete proof either way. Probably because there isn't any

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kboleen · 06-23-2004, 04:20 PM

I'm not saying Saruman didn't BREED Uruks, I'm just saying he didn't CREATE them the way the movie implies. Though there is nothing wrong with the way the Uruks were depicted in the movie. It was a short cut that I perfectly understand why it was done.

Quote from the Encyclopedia of Arda from the "Uruks" entry:

"In Appendix A (iv) of The Lord of the Rings, in the section recounting the history of the Stewards, we find an account of the first appearance of the uruks. 'In the last years of Denethor I the race of uruks, black orcs of great strength, first appeared out of Mordor, and in 2475 they swept across Ithilien and took Osgiliath.' This passage seems to imply that the uruks actually appeared shortly before Gondor's great defeat of III 2475."

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm

suncrafter · 03-04-2006, 11:51 AM

Yes, there are female Orcs...

Here is a page about orc reproduction that provides details:

[Link removed by moderator]

Tevildo · 03-04-2006, 07:33 PM

Suncrafter,

You've got to be kidding! That site has nothing to do with Tolkien's Orcs. It is something out of someone's wild imagination.

Eonwe · 03-05-2006, 08:30 PM

Consider this: Bolg, son of Azog. Anything else?

Legolas in spandex · 03-07-2006, 03:06 PM

she orcs...now there's a scary thought. Same as the males , except they get one hell of a PMS...O_<

Elu Ancalime · 03-31-2006, 05:18 PM

I want someone to answer this thread Fine.

How could there be females orcs!? For one, can you imagine orc-mating?
Arnt orcs just spawned of alchemy from 'black pits?' (Maybe Movie Isenguard was right as far as PJ?)

Quote:

Consider this: Bolg, son of Azog. Anything else?

Wouldnt Tolkien have elaborated? Perhaps a flaw such as Glorfindel or goblins/orcs? Perhaps Bolg was just Azog's "heir" to the goblin-dom of the Misty Mountains?

Morgoth 'corupted' elves, and that is canniccal. If he could pervert them so much, male and female elves into orcs would not be much different, so their gender would blend together or something. But the Enemy needed 'strong, scary' creatures, and no offense to females (i know their preparing to hunt me) but scary and bloodcurtling is assigned to masculinity. So he eliminated the female element.

Can anybody find some statement that negates the noting of female orcs? Im going to go crazy...

________
Penny Stocks To Watch

Eonwe · 03-31-2006, 06:15 PM

Quote:

So he eliminated the female element.

How? You can't just make up some other reproduction sceme. Not to mention Melkor couldn't create anything on his own...

Quote:

Arnt orcs just spawned of alchemy from 'black pits?

I fear that here PJ is just as far off as Valinor is for a Mortal man. Is there anywhere I'm missing? Where did this 'spawning orc' theory come from. Granted, I'm just as weirded out by orc reproduction as the next guy, but I think 'spawning orcs' is just a by-product of other fantacy influence that go in more for the 'revolting evil creatures' model. But I've been wrong before.

Finally, I don't see much to elaborate on. Glorfindel, I understand, is the product of rethinking over a long period of time. Rethinking of the whole nature of Elves. I don't see how you can really screw up "son of".

narfforc · 03-31-2006, 06:19 PM

In The Silmarillion, Tolkien writes the following (of Orcs): They had life and multiplied after the manner of The Children of Iluvatar. Now how do Elves and Men reproduce, don't get carried away with the vision of slimy oozy pits, as seen in the film. There is absolutely no reason why there would be no female of the species.

deal_with_it · 03-31-2006, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by narfforc

In The Silmarillion, Tolkien writes the following (of Orcs): They had life and multiplied after the manner of The Children of Iluvatar. Now how do Elves and Men reproduce, don't get carried away with the vision of slimy oozy pits, as seen in the film. There is absolutely no reason why there would be no female of the species.

Yes just because we didn't see them doesn't mean they didn't exist. We didn't see female dragons or trolls either, but they'd have to exist to make the species (immortal or not, after all there are genders in elves, too).

Female ents and dwarves are mentioned.

Elu Ancalime · 04-10-2006, 03:17 PM

I am just stubborn. Theres really nothing that I cant beleive it, but the idea that there are female orcs speculates orc society, and reproduction, which if you can understand me, doesnt fit in my mind without wanting to fight. But what about trolls?(originally quated by davem in WHo is TOM BOmbadill thread?)

Quote:

For just at that moment the light came over the hill, and there was a mighty twitter in the branches. William never spoke for he stood turned to stone as he stooped; and Bert and Tom were stuck like rocks as they looked at him. And there they stand to this day, all alone, unless the buds perch on them; for trolls, as you probably know, must be underground before dawn, or they go back to the stuff of the mountains they are made of, and never move again. That is what had happened to Bert and Tom and William.

I think that may be what I thought of in my mind. Trolls, surely, cant have femals, can they? With the names Tom, Bert, and WIlliam they may seem masculine, but didnt Tolkien mean for one of them to be Female? It seems trolls are really unisex or hermaphrodites.
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Viper Gts-R

Balin999 · 04-12-2006, 03:34 PM

I don't know if that helps, but you can have a look at this closed thread.

Are there female orcs?

Boromir88 · 04-24-2006, 02:15 PM

Tolkien comes right out and says there are female orcs...hopefully this will put an end to the discussion of that there aren't any:

Besides the quote in the Silm, which says they reproduce in the manner of the Children of Iluvatar, there is also from Letters of JRR Tolkien, called the "Munby Letter:"

Quote:

There must have been orc women. But in stories that seldom see the Orcs except as soldiers of armies in the service of evillords we naturally would not learn much about their lives. Not much was known.

ninja91 · 05-30-2006, 08:31 AM

Interesting thread, but I would rather not think about multiplying orcs. Ick!

06-22-2004, 09:13 PM	#41
Orcrist Wight Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: The Mines of Moria Posts: 239	Sauron could have made orcs the way Saruman made Uruk-hai. He just breeds them in Barad-Dur. You know, like the birthing pits in the movie. There were no female Uruk-hai(I don't think) Actually, I've been thinking. Did Saruman or Sauron make Uruk-hai first? THe movie makes it seem like Saruman made them first. At little off the topic but it's an interesting point. __________________ "A wedding! I love weddings! Drinks all around!" Jack Sparrow

06-22-2004, 09:26 PM	#42
Son of Númenor A Shade of Westernesse Join Date: May 2004 Location: The last wave over Atalantë Posts: 515	Sauron, I believe, bred the Uruk-hai before Saruman. If there were female orcs (which I have no real doubt there were), there were definitely female Uruks. __________________ "This miserable drizzling afternoon I have been reading up old military lecture-notes again:- and getting bored with them after an hour and a half. I have done some touches to my nonsense fairy language - to its improvement."

06-23-2004, 04:20 PM	#45
kboleen Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Northwest Florida Posts: 27	I'm not saying Saruman didn't BREED Uruks, I'm just saying he didn't CREATE them the way the movie implies. Though there is nothing wrong with the way the Uruks were depicted in the movie. It was a short cut that I perfectly understand why it was done. Quote from the Encyclopedia of Arda from the "Uruks" entry: "In Appendix A (iv) of The Lord of the Rings, in the section recounting the history of the Stewards, we find an account of the first appearance of the uruks. 'In the last years of Denethor I the race of uruks, black orcs of great strength, first appeared out of Mordor, and in 2475 they swept across Ithilien and took Osgiliath.' This passage seems to imply that the uruks actually appeared shortly before Gondor's great defeat of III 2475." http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm Last edited by kboleen; 06-23-2004 at 04:26 PM.

03-04-2006, 11:51 AM	#46
suncrafter Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 20	Yes, there are female Orcs... Here is a page about orc reproduction that provides details: [Link removed by moderator] Last edited by Estelyn Telcontar; 03-05-2006 at 06:58 AM.

03-04-2006, 07:33 PM	#47
Tevildo Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Curled up on Melko's lap Posts: 425	Suncrafter, You've got to be kidding! That site has nothing to do with Tolkien's Orcs. It is something out of someone's wild imagination. __________________ Now Tevildo was a mighty cat--the mightiest of all--and possessed of an evil spirit,...and he was in Melko's constant following; and that cat had all cats subject to him, and he and his subjects were the chasers and getters of meat for Melko's table.

06-23-2004, 01:49 AM	#43
kboleen Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Northwest Florida Posts: 27	I'm not positive Sauron created (for lack of a better word) the Uruks, but I do know Saruman did NOT create them as the movie implies. They first appeared out of Mordor approxiamatly 500 years before the events of the Lord of the Rings.

06-23-2004, 03:44 PM	#44
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	kboleen: And what are the facts that you know of that prove that Saruman didn't breed Uruk-Hai the way he did in the movie? I don't doubt that he might've bred them differently, but I've still seen no concrete proof either way. Probably because there isn't any .

03-05-2006, 08:30 PM	#48
Eonwe Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: In a world grown ever smaller. Posts: 678	Consider this: Bolg, son of Azog. Anything else? __________________ I've got bridge club on Wednesday, Archery on Thursday, Dancing on a Friday night!

03-07-2006, 03:06 PM	#49
Legolas in spandex Wight Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 102	she orcs...now there's a scary thought. Same as the males , except they get one hell of a PMS...O_< __________________ "I want to die in my sleep, like my grandfather... not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car."

03-31-2006, 06:19 PM	#52
narfforc Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Muddy-earth Posts: 1,297	She Orc to know better In The Silmarillion, Tolkien writes the following (of Orcs): They had life and multiplied after the manner of The Children of Iluvatar. Now how do Elves and Men reproduce, don't get carried away with the vision of slimy oozy pits, as seen in the film. There is absolutely no reason why there would be no female of the species. __________________ [B]THE LORD OF THE GRINS:THE ONE PARODY....A PARODY BETTER THAN THE RINGS OF POWER.

04-12-2006, 03:34 PM	#55
Balin999 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2000 Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon Posts: 493	I don't know if that helps, but you can have a look at this closed thread. Are there female orcs? __________________ ...Nichts ist gelber als Gelb selber... ...The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, but conformity... ...Everything is possible, except to ski through a revolving door...