Werewolf and Enneagrams

[Lalaith]

I don't know how many of you are familiar with Enneagram/Myers Briggs-type personality tests, but the recent WW game got me thinking about them.
(Disclaimer - even though I've got management-type chums who swear by these tests, I personally find them a bit too formulaic. But still, the concept is kind of interesting)
The four personality preferences, as tested by this system, are explained here:
http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/tt/t...l/mb-simpl.htm
All four are relevant to Werewolf play to some extent, but I think the most important ones are 2 and 3 - how you process information and how you make decisions. Do you prefer to deal with facts (S - Sensory) or ideas (N - Intuitive)? Do you make decisions based on logic (T - Thinker) or values and personal beliefs (F - Feeler)?

Now, in the last Werewolf game, Formendacil said that his downfall was partly due to this:

The problem, though, is that such a reputation requires Ordos around at the end of the game to speak up on your behalf, and all of our Voting Record people had died off: LMP, Spawn, TGWBS... All that was left was the Gut Feeling people (for the most part), and here I was shot.

In the same game, Valier said the following:

I have found this game and the players in it hard to judge. I have been fairly quiet and not throwing random and strange theories out there. I normally see weird connections and plans forming around me. I usually get a feeling about someone and say 8 times out of 10 I tend to be correct at the end. I see analysis as confusing, I swear my brain does not work that way. I think the things I see about others are usually arbitrary or soft in reasoning. But this game........wow it's hard to tell.

This would, under the system, make her a very strong NF, Intuitive Feeler. Formendacil meanwhile claims, on behalf of spawn, LMP and Guy, strong ST (Sensing Thinker) tendencies. (I think he sees himself here too, am I right?) Do they agree with this assessment?

So, where are you on the spectrum and how does this effect your playing style? On tests, I'm usually a fairly strong N but quite evenly split between F and T and this is reflected in how I play, I try to steer between two poles, which often ends up in a god-awful mental shipwreck, frankly.

Of course, there are those who probably think we shouldn't even be discussing our playing styles - too much information for the enemy....

[JennyHallu]

Well I've taken the Myers-Briggs test a couple years back.

I came out, as I recall, as an ENTP, or Extroverted, Intuitive, Thinking, Perceptive. Make of that what you will.

[Lalaith]

Yes, that's what I usually came out as too...

So do you think you're an 'instinct' or 'system' player, Jenny?

[JennyHallu]

I'm not sure...somewhere in between. Mithalwen taught me to distrust my instincts, but I never go in for deep and multipaged analysis, and I do not pick up on details. Someone always points out my post count or some such nothing as though that proves my guilt and my response is always "huh? You're COUNTING? Why?" I am very definitely a big-picture person. So when I think someone is guilty, it may be a very reasoned, thought out thing, but I can't point to the myriad of little things that caused me to think so. It's not a random gut feeling, I just can't articulate what I've noticed, because I don't consciously notice things on that level.

But I am also very very careful with my phrasing, whether innocent or guilty. It's always been my opinion that words are fairly arbitrary and it is a speaker's duty to narrow down the pool of possible meanings as much as possible. That almost got me in trouble last game...I confessed to taking meticulous care with every post, and Firefoot thought that seemed wolvish...but it wasn't. I'm just very careful with what I say.

[Kath]

Well I came out as ISFP so that's:

Introverted - that's pretty much right. It's why I don't post all that often. I prefer to sit back and watch others interact without posting myself and talking about my inner thoughts.

The others are about half right I think. Or at least I hope!

[THE Ka]

I remember this test. Instead of usually taking it in a psychology class ( This test is based on Mr. Jung's original personality theories), this was an assignment for english class so our teacher could learn of even more ways to get into our heads...


I came out as an INTJ from my original score, and not being a big fan of Jung, I don't really reguard it that much as I should like too.

Lovely link dear, I almost forgot about this thing. I believe I shall explore more of this.

~ Aesthete

[Valier]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

This would, under the system, make her a very strong NF, Intuitive Feeler

I was reading through this site when I came upon my name. I totally agree with this! Thanks Lalaith! I find that I am an Artsy type of person, I think in images and such and find analysing useless. I always find any "evidence" I find could point to either side. I usually make seemingly strange connections in my head that are hard to explain, but they seem to lead me in the right direction most of the time.

[the phantom]

Ah, yes, I've taken that test more than once. It was given to me when I was eight years old and then again my senior year of highschool. Then in a psych course last year I took it again. I'm getting sick of it.

I came out ENTP every time.

E won by a good margin over I, as did T over F. P and J were a bit closer. There was no contest between N and S.

[Lalaith]

So Kath, as an SF, (facts and feelings) do you play more by instinct or by system? What about Ka and Phantom, who are the opposite, both NTs?

[Cailín]

Well, I tend to come out as Introverted (though not always), and I am one of the loudest players out there, I think.

But I am quite contradictive that way, in real life as well. I prefer mostly to stand aside and observe other people…and yet I am always longing to be in the spotlights and hate it when people do not pay attention to me. Odd.

I am definitely Intuitive, while the other variables seem to differ. Often I’m a Feeling person.

By the way – I think Formendacil is a very intuitive player and has admitted to being that himself a few times. He only pretends to analyse. I am the same way. I reason a lot and try to get all the facts straight, and yet in the end I vote purely based on intuition and experience. I am not sure why – I like logical thinking and ratio but when I am under pressure, I always resort to senselessness.

[Lalaith]

yet in the end I vote purely based on intuition and experience. I am not sure why – I like logical thinking and ratio but when I am under pressure, I always resort to senselessness

Interesting...I think I'm with you there...although it's my opinon that intuition is 90% experience, anyway...
I think spawn is a very interesting player, a mix of S & N. In any game I've played with her she's often the player who is most careful with the facts, and usually knows exactly what's happened and when, but also uses intuition.

[Lalaith]

Btw, the link I originally provided, while explaining the different types very thoroughly, doesn't have a particularly good personality test (it seems to be difficult to come out as anything but an introvert!)

A more thorough and accurate test is here:
http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes1.htm

[Kath]

So Kath, as an SF, (facts and feelings) do you play more by instinct or by system?

Well I think I do something similar to Cailín. I do post analyses and facts and try to make sense of things from that, but I'm working from instinct. My analysis is biased by my feelings about the player. So a mixture of the two really.

EDIT: However, using that new link I come out at ISJT.

[Holbytlass]

Hhm, with the second link I came out with ESFJ, but I put myself more EIFP. Then again can 50 or so questions really determine how we are? Nobody is one way and not even the same way in different situations. I'm a fun loving laid back kind of parent but not when it comes to safety, obeying rules and sleep (my friends call me 'sleep nazi').

Getting back to werewolf and its implications. I suppose I'm more annalytical. I have to "see" a pattern. I don't (or can't) think of how a player's action could possibly turn out in a day or two or single/double/triple bluffs unless it has been established by someone else (also why I stink at chess). Also, with so many players I get easily overloaded with all the info and how it all correlates.
I don't do well in werewolf until the 3rd or 4th day when there is stuff to go back and look on and players have been killed off.
But I have learned to trust my gut, if I can't get a nagging feeling out of my head about someone I'll dog them till they're dead. Sometimes makes it hard becuse I may not have hard concrete evidence against them.

As far as "information for the enemy" I think we've all played so much that we have a good idea of each other.

[Mithalwen]

And what if you could answer yes to all depending on mood?

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Of course, there are those who probably think we shouldn't even be discussing our playing styles - too much information for the enemy....

Um, yes, that would be me.

Though in truth, I've taken this test before but have now forgotten what my results were. And I don't feel much like taking it again.

So put me down as:

Introverted Recalcitrant Secretive Cavedweller.

[Formendacil]

ISTJ- heavy on the Judging, apparently.

Make of that what you will...

(Results from Test 2)

[Valier]

I'm ESFJ

Heavy on the E and F

Yep sounds like me.

[Lalaith]

And what if you could answer yes to all depending on mood?

Yes, Mith, I agree, which is why I said this in my first post...

I personally find them a bit too formulaic

I moaned about exactly this point to my management consultant chums who were using me as a guinea pig...and they replied that was a typical NP thing to say...

What I'm really trying to do, I suppose, is look for tools to analyse and explain the different ways we all have of playing the game, the methods we all use to try to reach a solution...the quiz above is not ideal, I know, but it's as good a way as any I could think of...

[THE Ka]

I decided to take it again, since it's been awhile.

Apparently, it's still:

Introverted: 56

iNtuitive: 75

Thinking: 88

Judging: 11

I thought I might have changed a bit, but I guess it's just a frame of mind that has developed. Oh well, I still enjoy playing and learning about everyone else far more. If there ever could be a better outlet in which people ruthlessly are thrown off a cliff of cover to show their true means and colours to their personality, it's Werewolf.

~ Aesthete

[Celuien]

INTJ, just about every time I take one of these things.

I guess the T comes through, since I try to be one of the logic and contingency planners in Werewolf. But so does the 'N.' A lot of what gets my attention and then brings down the analysis is based on gut feeling. So both.

[Garin]

Introverted iNtuition with auxiliary extraverted Thinking: INTJ
I've always described myself as closet a extravert.

[Lhunardawen]

ISFJ (44, 1, 75, 56 respectively). Got that, too, on the first link.

It's all case-to-case, really...but in Werewolf I do tend to feel more than think my way through.

But isn't a combination of S and F a bit contradictory?

[Lalaith]

Good question, here's some answers (maybe):

ST - Sensing-Thinking Types - Stress systematic decision making with quantitative, not qualitative data (Nutt, 1986). They establish order, set up control and manage with certainty (Mitroff & Mitroff, 1980). They prefer tasks that are structured and prefer to take very few risks. There is a focus on immediate problems, the quick fix, and the use of standard producers and playing by the rules. STs dive into the details and look for specifics and some say to find step-by-step progress (Haley & Stumpf, 1989; Haley, 1997). Once set with a decision, doubt and opposition do not deter them, and they may resist a reanalysis.

SF - Sensing-Feeling Types - these are people oriented decision makers. They welcome people's opinions, and concentrate on qualitative and more affective and evaluative information. More concerned with facts about people that about things. Short term focus on problems of today, but only with human implications. Harmony is preferred and they are quick to reconcile interpersonal differences (Haley & Stumpf, 1989; Haley, 1997).

NT - iNtuitive-Thinking Types (Visionaries) - focus on nonlinear problems and studying patterns in the data (Nutt, 1986). Head for the more general information rather then the details and specifics. Prefer analysis, but will make bold intuitive leaps into the unknown. More long-range in their thinking and strategic plans. Not big on implementation. Will dive into a complex problem and try to organize them into simpler ones. Can be quite idealistic and even impersonal, and will ignore the nay sayers around them (Haley & Stumpf, 1989; Haley, 1997).

NF - iNtuitive-Feeling Types (Catalysts) - focus on judgment and experience, and portraying their own personal views as the facts (Nutt, 1986). There are few rules in their decision-making and they rely on intuitive perception. They will construct open ended, non-linear, and ill-defined problems and seek fresh, human possibilities. More focus on the broad themes than on specifics and seek longer-term goals. May test their hunches

Some of these strategies sound quite familiar....

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Some of these strategies sound quite familiar....

They do indeed. How interesting.

That should explain why I sometimes feel like voting for someone even if a decent case against him/her hasn't been done previously...

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I've taken the test a few times, and I have always come out to be an ENFP.

I definitely play like an NF, though my gut instincts are usually pitifully off track (as just about anyone whose ever played a game in which I have participated can testify).

[Lalaith]

Its funny how many of the 'quieter' players are extroverts, while many of the more active players are introverts.
Maybe its because the extroverts are out at parties instead of at their computers...

[Legolas in spandex]

was this what I be invited to, hmm? If so, here I am, and I want to sign up!!!

[JennyHallu]

Legolas...I think you're probably looking for the thread labelled Tol-in-Gaurhoth.

This is a thread discussing strategy for the Werewolf game, the next round of which is being organized in the thread I linked to.

[the phantom]

All right. Here's a few ENTP traits. See if you think they fit my WW style (you are familiar with it if you were in games 1, 2, 3, 4, 9, or 10).

ENTPs are usually verbally as well as cerebrally quick, and generally love to argue

I suppose that's true.

ENTPs have little patience with those they consider wrongheaded or unintelligent, and show little restraint in demonstrating this.

Heh heh.

Making, discovering and developing connections between and among two or more of anything is virtually automatic

Anyone who has read my post game summaries knows that I love to make connections between events. I'm always thinking things like so if he voted for him at this time then it is likely that she is not in cahoots, unless so-and-so turns out to be a wolf, in which case it would be probable that...

Although the ENTP is more interested in absorbing information than in making decisions, they are quite rational and logical in reaching conclusions.

I think that fits.

ENTPs are idea people. Their perceptive abilities cause them to see possibilities everywhere.

This is certainly true. I can always come up with a theory for someone being a werewolf, no matter how innocent everyone thinks they are. I can also come up with a theory for why someone is innocent, no matter how guilty they appear to be.

To tell you the truth, that is why I enjoy the game so much. I absolutely love analyzing the verbal attacks and defenses, the voting, and the kills and coming up with possibilites, and trying to figure out what is motivating people to do what they are doing. Even if I am completely wrong I think it's super fun to come up with as many cool theories as possible.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I took the test that is in Lalaith's first post, and I got INTJ. I don't know how well the descriptions of that type match with my RL self, but I think they define my WW playing style pretty accurately.

Likes looking at information from a global viewpoint, spotting patterns and relationships, that lead to an understanding of the key issues

Well, the key issue of WWing is to spot patterns and relationships that lead to finding the wolves, and yes, I like it.

Applies logical analysis to perceived patterns and possibilities

Logical analysis, my trusty weapon. I may start suspecting people based on a feeling, but I always dig up some facts to back up those feelings.

The potential ways in which an INTJ can irritate others include:

- Being single-minded or stubborn

Stubborn, me?

- Not expressing appreciation for the contributions of others, particularly where it hasn't been fully competent

Maybe in next game, I'll try to be an ESFP.

[Naria]

Hmmm....very interesting! I turned out to be an ISFP

REALLY heavy on the 'F'(feeling) and next heaviest on the 'S'(sensing)

Very cool indeed

[Anguirel]

INFP, as I'd suspected...

Things I can be criticised for include "thinking too much"...

[tar-ancalime]

I've taken many of these tests (what can I say, I'm self-obsessed), and I always come out INFJ.

Due in part to the unique perspective produced by this alternation between detachment and involvement in the lives of the people around them, INFJs may well have the clearest insights of all the types into the motivations of others, for good and for evil.

Aha! Now if that isn't the indication of a great Werewolf player, I don't know what is! So....why am I so lousy at picking wolves?

[Diamond18]

This Test is not an Enneagram but is similar in concept, and so I thought those who were interested in these things for Werewolf-psychology purposes would like to check it out. Posting results is optional, of course. To not clutter the thread, mine is here.

[Lalaith]

I'm rather puzzled by your scores, Diamond dear...
I shall be doing this myself later, when I've more time...

[Diamond18]

What can I say. I am in many ways a contradictory person.

I got around to taking your test and this is what I got, don't remember if it matches the last time I did one of these things:

INFJ

The Dominant function is the perceptive one of iNtuition. Characteristics associated with this function include:

* Likes looking at information from a global viewpoint, spotting patterns and relationships, that lead to an understanding of the key issues
* Focuses more on possibilities for the future than the here-and-now
* Enjoys change, challenge, and variety

Well, the last one is definitely true. The first one sounds about right, but I'm not sure about that middle one.

In a team environment, the INFJ can contribute by:

* observing and understanding the team dynamics, and encouraging the team to recognise them and take appropriate action
* listening carefully to various viewpoints, and being able to identify potential areas of agreement to be used as a basis to move forward
* being trustworthy, meeting commitments to a consistent standard
* contributing creative ideas, particularly those involving people
* bringing the team to make decisions about important issues
* promoting harmony and co-operation

I dunno, do I?

The potential ways in which an INFJ can irritate others include:

* not including others in the INFJ's process of developing ideas and vision
* not giving criticism or expressing disagreement when it is appropriate
* ignoring current reality in pursuit of insight and meaning - perhaps overlooking some tasks that need to be done
* making errors of fact
* not promoting their ideas in the group
* wanting to pursue ideas without fully thinking through the consequences in, say, cost terms

Hmmmm.

Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the INFJ's shadow may appear - a negative form of ESTP. Example characteristics are:

* acting very impulsively, making decisions without thinking them through
* doing things to excess - e.g.: eating, drinking or exercising
* being critical of others, and finding fault with almost everything
* being preoccupied about unimportant details and doing things that have no meaning
* acting in a very materialistic and selfish way
* cutting corners, breaking the rules, and even contradicting the INFJ's own values

Actually, this sounds about right. Eek.

[Lalaith]

I got rather different results from yours, Di, in your quiz...
...they were fairly accurate actually but some surprises - 99% activity level despite clicking the middle box for all questions relating to such things? - but I don't know how to do photobucket so I can't post them.