Sage Hobbit movie advice for PJ?

[Imladris]

Wanting to make it into a two part movie and getting to do it is often difficult. PJ had to fight tooth and nail to get LotR into three movies. I doubt he'll be able to get The Hobbit into two movies.

Another example of studios refusing to make two movies out of one book is the Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire movie. *shakes head* If they (they as in movie people in general) wouldn't make that six hundred page book into a two part movie there is slim hope for the Hobbit, which, technically, doesn't have enough material for a two part movie anyway.

[Gil-Galad]

I thought Peter first wanted 3 movies, but then the company that was paying him said 2, then 1, but then New Line got the rights and said isn't there 3 books? so make 3 movies

[Tuor of Gondolin]

But there are strong arguments for a two-parter, both artistic and $$$.
1) Two movies could be 2 or 2 1/2 hours each, rather then a probably
longer one-off movie, hence more showings per day in theaters.
2) Two movies would not only be twice as many movies (duh!) but
anticipation could grow for the conclusion.

And it's hard to see PJ passing up the cinematic pyrotechnics of
Beorn coming to the rescue (perhaps even him attacking orcs earlier
in the movie). Plus, how about one of the charges by Smaug on Laketown
being similar to the pass by the fireworks dragon at the Birthday Party?

[Elladan and Elrohir]

My $0.02.

I think The Hobbit would make a terrific movie from adventure standpoint. Troll attacks, Warg attacks, Gollum attacks, massive Orc attacks . . . awesomeasoid.

One movie, IMHO. Two would be stretching it, and I think that you could include everything you needed in a movie about the same length as the LOTR films.

The idea about showing Aragorn in Rivendell as a boy but only identifying his mother is a terrific one, but would obviously only appeal to avid book readers (which is fine with me, because I am one).

Ian Holm is not too old to play Bilbo. He looked fine in the flashback "Riddles in the Dark" scene in FOTR, and anyway, is Gandalf lying when he tells him, "You haven't aged a day"?

Obviously Ian McKellen, Hugo Weaving and Andy Serkis come back to play their respective roles. A few White Council scenes would serve as an interesting subplot, if done properly.

Here's the Orlando Bloom cameo: Just before the Battle of Five Armies starts, you show the lines of Mirkwood Elves getting their weapons ready. You take the camera down one of the front lines, and at the end, ol' Orli dramatically raises his head and fits an arrow to the bow in his lightning-quick fashion (causing mass swoons in the audience, of course).

My one question is whether you're going to "fool" parents who thought they were bringing their kids to a children's movie. I mean, you can just picture 9-year-old Haley who reads the book, gets ecstatic about it, makes Mom and Dad take her to the theatre, and then has to watch a PJ-toned, as-violent-as-a-PG-13-movie-can-get film. That's the one con about making this movie: it changes the target audience. But, then again, if Tolkien had known then what he later knew about Middle-earth, it would not have been a children's book. So, I say, go for it, PJ!

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Encaitare

Oh, goodness me, yes. Please, no "tra-lally-lally, down here in the valley"! Poor Elrond must have been driven mad by all that infernal singsong, no wonder he went over the Sea!

Tril-lil-lil-lolly, or bust. Give me the songs from the trees, and make them merry, and I want to see the dancing on the riverbank on Midsummer's Eve. Or I'll riot... solo if need be.

For all you Tra-la-la-lally detractors, I refer you to the Hobbitons, "The Valley". A finer improvisational-style drinking song can hardly be found. And it's no wonder, after that, why Bilbo insisted on listening to the elves. Every time I hear that one elf in the background hysterically laughing his way off of his tree-branch, I laugh too.

"Don't dip your beard in the foam, father, it's long enough already!"

[Hookbill the Goomba]

If the white counsel is involved, I think they would probably show all five wizards, i.e. we'd get to see ol' Radagast, Alatar and Pallando. As was said earlier, Tension between Gandalf and Saruman could be shown (And perhaps that scene from UT between Gandalf and Saruman [including Saruman's comments on hobbit weed]).

This would be good for book readers to see as well as explaining a few things to moviegoers.

Moreover, The Riddles in the Dark would be an interesting scene, how they would tie it in to the scene in the prologue of Fellowship would be difficult. Perhaps cut it so that it shows Bilbo finding the ring, having the riddle game, and then when Gollum discovers his missing precious, you see Bilbos reaction to "lose! My precious is lost!".

That’s my opinion any way.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Yes. The Riddle Game would be a key part, of course, with PJ you never know, he might have Gollum tag along all the way to Erebor.

As for mark12_30 point, why not have Kevin Spacey as Elrond, after all, he can sing. (or Kevin Kline--- listen to credits at the end of "French Kiss").

[The Saucepan Man]

I read in the newspaper the other day that Jackson is planning on making a film of the book, The Lovely Bones, once he has finished on King Kong.

So it looks like we are either in for a long wait or a different director. Assuming that the legal wrangles are solved, that is ...

[Ainaserkewen]

I can't believe I just found this tonight! I had so much fun reading all the ideas. Screw Pete Jackson, you guys have the imagination to at least write the screenplay.

I just have a couple points because it's so much fun to make them.

Firstly, Orlando Bloom. Someone said eons ago that they'd prefer he was not Legolas, since the idea of the Mirkwood Prince being in this movie was so irresistable, because of the Leggie-lovers or whatever term was used. I have to say that no one else can play Legolas now. Darn-near impossible. However, we also must face the reality that whether we want him or not, Orlando Bloom is this grossly famous actor now. Would he do a movie that gave him such a small role as standing next to Alan Rickman (he was suggested) for 30 seconds, or getting drunk? Though he might do it for sentimental reasons, I'm sure whoever represents him has other ideas.

No Harry Potter actors should be used. Period.

10 year old Aragorn disguised as Estel would rock my socks. Those kind of nods, which take up virtually no time, would totally make up for changes they made in the movie itself.

Also, it was mentioned that Stuart Townsend, because he didn't get to play Aragorn, should play Bard or something. Stuart Townsend doesn't belong in any heroic movie...love him though I do, he's just too much of an anti-hero actor, and there are none of those in Tolkien's writing save perhaps Gollum.

Plus, if Mr. Townsend were in this movie, along with a sketchy Mr. Bloom, you can only imagine the undesirable fanfiction. *ahem*

EDIT: And Saucy, I was descouraged by your post, but hopefully we won't have to wait too long.

[Reg Pither]

Characterisation.

In LotR, PJ 'lessened' most of the characters from the book, making them less noble, less assertive, more selfish and more dishonest. However, in The Hobbit, almost all of the characters (even Bilbo himself) are selfish, spiteful and greedy, so PJ is going to have to go the other way and 'embiggen' them to get them to be more acceptable. But can he do it, or will he somehow make everyone even worse than in the book?

Just a thought...

[Elladan and Elrohir]

I'm going to go out on a limb and make the prediction that PJ will make The Hobbit after Lovely Bones. Sure, there's still the whole distribution issue to be cleared up, but it will be cleared up. You're talking multi-million dollars here. New Line will not be going out on a limb like they were with Lord of the Rings. This is absolutely certain to be a blockbuster hit, and unless Jackson's moviemaking skills take a huge dive, one of the best movies of the year. The distribution issue will be cleared up, mark my word.

Beyond the four principals from LOTR returning (Holm, McKellen, Weaving, Serkis), are there any other actors/tresses that should return? I know we'll say Bloom, but he wouldn't be significant to the story unless significant changes were made. Who else, and who should they play? Should Liv Tyler make a cameo appearance? And where should PJ's cameo be?

Another question. I believe, and others here agree, that Ian Holm should reprise the role of Bilbo. BUT, whether you agree or not, do you think Mr. Holm has a legitimate shot at the title role? I want you guys' input.

[Ainaserkewen]

Originally Posted by Elladan and Elrohir

BUT, whether you agree or not, do you think Mr. Holm has a legitimate shot at the title role? I want you guys' input.

I believe it was already run over somewhere that Mr. Holm doesn't want the role, he's nearing 70 is he not?

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

I read in the newspaper the other day that Jackson is planning on making a film of the book, The Lovely Bones, once he has finished on King Kong.

So it looks like we are either in for a long wait or a different director. Assuming that the legal wrangles are solved, that is ...

I imagine PJ has probably more or less planned his Hobbit so he might do that first if he could .... I rather hope so because I love The Lovely Bones and rather dread what he would do to it given his taste for gore... Do the Hobbit PJ and give the Lovely Bones to Peter Weir........

And I still want Jason Isaacs to play Thranduil ... HP or not....

[Tuor in Gondolin]

"Beyond the four principals from LOTR returning (Holm, McKellen, Weaving, Serkis), are there any other actors/tresses that should return? I know we'll say Bloom, but he wouldn't be significant to the story unless significant changes were made. Who else, and who should they play? Should Liv Tyler make a cameo appearance? And where should PJ's cameo be?"
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I'd like to see John-Rhys Davies play Thorin Oakenshield. Give him
slightly different makeup (hopefully improved for him since the movie version
gave him (rashes?)). It would actually be easier to involve him more in The Hobbit
since doubles wouldn't be needed as much, since there are a number of
dwarves and Bilbo.
And assuming Smaug would be a combination of cgi and a puppet (like Jabba
in Star Wars), how about Sean Connery as his voice?

Incidentally, there's a quite interesting chapter on hobbits and The Hobbit
in Tom Shippey's J.R.R. Tolkien: Author Of The Century .

[Mithalwen]

It might be nice to have John Rhys-Davies in a cameo (Dain maybe?) but I don't see him as Thorin - Thorin is a much edgier Dwarf....

[Gil-Galad]

LOTR was good at finding and exposing some unknown actors, so i would expect the same for The Hobbit, but i wouldn't be dissapointed if i saw a lot of Irish actors being played as Dwarves, such as Ewan McGregor, or maybe William DaFoe

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

LOTR was good at finding and exposing some unknown actors, so i would expect the same for The Hobbit, but i wouldn't be dissapointed if i saw a lot of Irish actors being played as Dwarves, such as Ewan McGregor, or maybe William DaFoe

I am fairly sure that Ewan McGregor is Scottish .... and that would work better with Gimli's scottish accent....

[Ainaserkewen]

Personally, I'm against any famous actors taking roles in the Hobbit. Especially if they've been in such huge blockbusters like Star Wars and Harry Potter.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I don't think the fame of the actors matters as much as the ability to fit into the character and give an excellent performance. I don't mind unknowns (and in fact rather like them, as long as they're good, on the principle that once I leave college, I will be one, too)...but I think the best measure of casting is how well which actors fit into the parts, not how well-known those actors are. Why can't the movie be a team effort between famous, experienced actors and people new to the buisness, or who have been around for a while but aren't well-known? That is how the LOTR movies came out, and I personally wouldn't have the casting in those any other way (though some may disagree).

As for what should be in the movie, I think that an Gilraen or Estel (or both!) cameo would be awesome, and push the coolness factor straight through the roof, from a book-geek's point of view.

I also think that Orlando Bloom should make a cameo appearance...No lines, nothing particularly lingering, just Legolas at the party in Mirkwood, or Legolas at the Battle of Five Armies...Not exactly blink-and-miss-it, but something that maybe wouldn't hit you until it had already gone by.

I think that Andy Serkis is a must. No one can do Gollum like him. Also, I would LOVE to see Ian McKellen come back, and of course, Hugo Weaving as Elrond. But I don't know so much about Ian Holm. He's too old for the part, in my opinion, and the question must be made if he actually *wants* the role.

I don't really care for the idea of John Rhys-Davies returning as a dwarf, unless he can deliver a completely different performance and the prosthetics they give him make him look completely different from Gimli, and they don't give him an allergic reaction. I don't want to see Gimli again. Not because I don't like him, but because the other dwarves are different people and I want to see different performances.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

"As for what should be in the movie, I think that an Gilraen or Estel (or both!) cameo would be awesome, and push the coolness factor straight through the roof, from a book-geek's point of view."
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Great point about Gilraen. I'd forgotten she was obviously still
alive then. It would be neat if Elrond just in passing introduced them
to Bilbo, with perhaps a comment by Bilbo about Estel's name.

[Thinlómien]

For the Liv Tyler cameo appearance PJ might put Arwen to be a member of the White Council...
And the romance, let's hope that PJ doesn't follow the way of the finnish ballet about the hobbit - otherwise we would be seeing Bilbo flirting with elves in Rivendell in big screen...

[Frodo Baggins]

Hey if Young Aragorn should make a cameo appearence at Rivendell they could use that really cute kid (what's his name) that played Eldarion in ROTK for the part!!

[Dûrbelethwen]

He's name is Sadwyn Brophy. (I looked it up on the internet movie database.

[Bergil]

firstly, I like lhe idea of cameos and "Asterixian" jokes, referring to Lord of the Rings. Maybe, after a scene in Rivendell, Aragorn/Estel could ask Elrond what's going on an Elrond could say "another of Gandalf's plans. trusting a hobbit to do something this important?" or Thranduil could advise his son that "that's how dwarves are, you have to drag everything out of them"

my other Idea is how to start the film. we could have Thorin and Gandalf discussing retaking the mountain and deciding on burglury. the scene ends in Thorin saying "then find me a burgler for the ages. Someone who can make no noise, steal your beard before you notice, and dissapear into the shadows" then quickly cut to Bilbo lounging on a chair, then hear a knock, lose his balance, and crash to the floor then noisily make his way to the door.

what do you think?

[Frodo Baggins]

*chuckles*

That sounds magnificent Bergil! More like a grocer than a burglar!

[Elladan and Elrohir]

Dude, BERGIL, that sounds awesome! That would be a phenomenal way to open the film!

So, would they do a prologue? I would say, no. There's not nearly as much backstory to explain as you had with LOTR. I say everything necessary you can show in a flashback sequence as Thorin tells the story to Bilbo at Bag End.

After much thought and consideration, I must agree that Ian Holm is just too old for Bilbo. *SOB* So, that quite obviously raises the question: Who fills that starring role? Another unknown, would be my vote. I agree that no major stars (other than the ones reprising their roles from LOTR) should appear in the film at all.

[Parmawen]

this might be the most awful idea in the word, but i did see it suggested on another site, and it was Billy Boyd being cast as Bilbo...

Personally I don't really think it'd would just because he's allready so much associated with Pippin...but still it is an interesting idea. He really is the ideal hobbit.

And they actually could tie in a Legolas appearance quite nicely, because doesn't Bilbo end up rescuing the dwarves from Legolas's father's castle? Might be the wrong elvish king...I tend to get them mixed up...

[Elu Ancalime]

There was this one forum that i saw through another link about a guy who wrote an entire screenplay for the hobbit. I knwo its somewhere on this board, does anybody know? Anyway he introduced a few ideas:
-The prolouge would be a lengthy one. the FotR one was 7 minutes. It would start with the whole ring of power thing, with probably Gandalf narrating, or Thorin. Then it would branch off to the dwarven rings, talking about how dragon fire and evil recovered them, and Durin III's was the last. Then The balrog driving out the dwarves, but it probably wouldnt shoe the balrog, just a scene from the balrog's point of view, form his shoulder or something. Then the glory of the mountain, ending with smaug taking over, and a few scenes like when Frodo looked into the mirror and saw Sam, Legolas turning around, except with dwarves. Then somehow fit in a snippet of the war of dwarves and orcs, or save that flashback for later, then Thrains detainment in Dol Gulder, Gandalf getting the key and map and such. This section should wholly be in the prolouge, at least up to smaug, but some could be divided up for this next thing or Bilbos tea party. Anyway, it all needs to be there.

-Next is not the prolouage, but still not the movie. THis is when Gandalf meets Thorin in Bree, then goes to his halls. There more flashbacks, probably of the War of Dwarves and Orcs, then basically the entire disscussion of what was in Unfinished Tales and that bit in The Steward and the King.

-Then finally, Bilbo sitting on his rocking chair infront of his barrow-I mean Hole and the white words "The Hobbit" across the screen.

And all of that will probably take maybe up to 20 minutes, but literature-wise, it is needed.
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Lamborghini Gallardo

[Elu Ancalime]

Hey if Young Aragorn should make a cameo appearence at Rivendell they could use that really cute kid (what's his name) that played Eldarion in ROTK for the part!!

Actually, I believe Aragorn would be 25 years old, and that is what I'm guessing.

I also think(although this would have to be extended edition) that a White Council subplot would be great, Including Galadriel, all five wizards (we all wanna see em) perhaps Glorfindel, Celeborn, but probably not aragorn or arwen. They could go from some ignorance amoung the blue wizards, Sauruman's aggressiveness, Radagast saying why cant we just be friends, and Gandalf saying nicely stfu, we gotta do this. Then perhaps go to an invented scene of the wizards just about to attack DOl Gulder with a bunch of Galadhim.

John Ryes-Davis I dont think could be Thorin, he is not exactly "rough" enough in practice, perhaps he could be Gloin though? That would be amusing.
Let's see...Andy Serkis is a must, same with the wizards and Elrond, perhaps Colin Farrel as Bard? Your right btw, Sean Connery as Smaug would be great, how about Bob Knight as The Master, or Jon Lovitz.
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Suzuki gn125e

[Elladan and Elrohir]

Actually, Aragorn was ten at the time of The Hobbit. The Quest of Erebor took place in 2941; 'Gorn was born in 2931 on March 1. The Quest of the Ring was seventy-seven years after Erebor, in 3018-19, with Aragorn being 87 when it began and 88 by the time it ended.

I still don't think a prologue is a good idea. It's too LOTR-ish, and I really don't think the material merits one. This is a far more simple story than LOTR (at least it will be if they don't show a bunch of White Council stuff), and it needs to be treated as such.

I cannot wait to hear Howard Shore's score for The Hobbit. The Shire theme, one or both of Gollum's themes, and the Rivendell theme will be back, but everything else will be new. I want an Erebor/Dwarf theme, a new Goblin/Orc theme, a Smaug theme, and a Bard/Laketown theme. Okay, I'm selfish, but I cannot stand how great the LOTR soundtracks are, and I have GOT to hear another Shore M-E score!

Bob Knight as The Master. Now that makes me crack up. That's seriously funny.

No go on Billy Boyd. He's Pip, he'll always be Pip, and they can find someone more appropriate for the role of Bilbo.

[Elu Ancalime]

I cannot wait to hear Howard Shore's score for The Hobbit. The Shire theme, one or both of Gollum's themes, and the Rivendell theme will be back, but everything else will be new. I want an Erebor/Dwarf theme, a new Goblin/Orc theme, a Smaug theme, and a Bard/Laketown theme. Okay, I'm selfish, but I cannot stand how great the LOTR soundtracks are, and I have GOT to hear another Shore M-E score

I myself am quite ready to hear more from Shore.

Bob Knight as The Master. Now that makes me crack up. That's seriously funny.

Im tellin you, it has to be done.
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Dodge Stratus Specifications