Tol-in-Gaurhoth XIX: Ang Sagang Daga, bow.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

The roles were drawn randomly, I assure you. I spent part of my time waiting for our French instructor to arrive to draw lots. I was astonished to see the names coming out. Nobody would believe me this was random. I was right.

Well, the Lover roles weren't random. My first choice was Eomer and Cailín (for obvious reasons ), then Kath and daga'y. And, for a while, I was thinking of making spawn and Formendaga Lovers, just so I'd have a reason to challenge him to a duel (not that I need a reason, but hey! )

But then, Lhuna, not content in being a Werewolf, asked me to make her a Lover with Farael. You ask her why him.

The Oathsworn idea sounds good, although the Lovers make for a more interesting death post, don't you think?

Speaking of, apologies to some for my death posts. Many of them (especially the DAY deaths) were not done as well as I would have wanted, due to lack of time. Moderate a game during your finals week, what do you get?

I had a nice death post for Lalaith cooked up, after my sister texted me that Form told him she was their NIGHT's kill. It involved Romeo and Juliet quotes (that was for Abercrombie, in case she's reading) but then Sam told me he wanted Celu dead. Well, I thought the 'Freud to death' post was nice, too. *grins*

Now, in a Lover game, the chance of Wolf-on-Wolf voting increases drastically. I was . . . well, a bit surprised to see that some of you declared the Kath voters more innocent-seeming than the Lhuna voters. Remember, the Werewolves themselves aren't always really sure of who the Lovers are, so some of these fratricidal voters might just be feeling for the lupine Lover.

Formendacil and Samwise were masterful Werewolves. Too bad the Mod's commandments conspired against them. *tongue*

I've learned a lot about village mechanics in this game. I hope to apply them as a villager soon--although that doesn't mean I'm sure I could play in your game, Farael. I really want to, believe me, but bleah!

[Diamond18]

Nilp, are you going to enter your game into the Grimoire?

[littlemanpoet]

Talk about good instincts! I wish I'd gone back and read Spawn's PMs during the game! ....

LMP:

Well. You and I have survived Day 1. You did better than I. But that's okay. Getting voted for in such a big field may help reveal a few things.

I think we can accept Lal's innocence as likely, given Lhuna's vote for her.

Naturally, I'm suspicious of Gurthang, less so of Eomer now that the day's done. I tend to think that Eomer is being honest with his "master plan", and that I was his guinea pig. Fair enough.

What do you think of Ang? Do you think he's right about Glirdan?

My "tick" plan didn't get me very far. I think a good hard study of Day 1 now that it's complete will reveal much, after which I'll be more ready to discuss about whom to dream. Thoughts?

Spawn:

Cailín's vote, well, she said that she won't be much around on Day 1. When she had to vote, only Lommy, Lalaith and I had posted, and I think she wanted to choose one of us three because voting for someone before s/he has even spoken looks a bit too odd. I'm not sure what to think of her now.

I'm a bit worried of Kath, though. She didn't say much and her vote for Eomer was odd. Tar-a voted for Eomer for the same reasons on Day 1 in the last game, and she was innocent. Is Kath a wolf voting for an innocent/ a wolf with the same reasons hoping that we'd think that she's innocent, too?

A vote for a fellow wolf won't look suspicious to other wolves if it was something that they had agreed on during their Nightly discussions.

No doubt, those two thing are their goals, but actually, if one lover dies, the other lover will die automatically, too. But I think the wolves are ready to lose one of their own in order to find out who of the wolves are trustworthy.

I'm a bit suspicious of Samwise because he seemed somewhat eager to make a case against Cailin accusing that her suspicions weren't reasoned enough, but neither were Samwise's. He then kind of backed off saying that "And yet, I can't help but think that no wolf would be so stupid on day one. Any thoughts?" Also, that 'any thoughts' part seems wolvish because it looks like as though he was trying to find out if it was possible to get rid of her today without looking too questionable.

When I mentioned that, he answered: "Spawn, you have raised the issue that my suspicions of Cailin may have seemed baseless, due to a lack of evidence. So here we go: Posts #5 & #9 between them point the finger at eight- that's right, eight- different individuals. That's over one third of our village randomly accused by this little lady. That's at least a little suspicious, isn't it? Couple this with a very early vote and Cailin makes my list. Not my 'Is a wolf and must be horribly murdered' list, but at least my 'Ooh, that's odd' list."

He sees quite a lot of trouble to say: "Ooh, that's odd." I think he might be a wolf. Besides, I don't trust those who apologise their votes (like Lhuna and Samwise did).

Btw, want to explain Eomer's plan to me? I really didn't get it yet.

About Ang and Glirdan, Lhuna said: "I feel that both Garin and Glirdan are innocent, just completely misled." I believe her. If Glirdan was a wolf, she would probably have voted for Garin to make it sure that Glirdan won't end up lynched. That said, I think TGWBS is innocent, too.

I'm inclined to trust Anguirel for now.

LMP:

I'm not so worried about Kath yet. I find her reasoning to be believable. And actually somewhat agreeable.

Nevertheless, it would be unnecessary for the werewolves to vote for each other so early unless they have a 'grand plan maestro' amongst them.... which is not out of the question. Still, it's one of those things that is the less likely of two options, the other being that the werewolves are unlikely to vote for each other so as not to unnecessarily risk helping to lynch one of their number; besides, they look at the odds of the seers finding them on Night 1 as being rather slim, which it was, and figure that voting for an innocent on Day 1 probably will not do much harm.

I still think the werewolves are too much realists (the position forces this on you, know what I mean?) to risk losing of their number faster than they need to. Granted, one of the werewolves is aiming to lynch the other three, but the success rate of that can't be all that great. It's something to keep an eye on though.

Good points on Samwise.

Saying "thoughts?" doesn't seem wolvish to me, it seems like someone who is admittedly confused and is hoping for some help from fellow innocents. I do it a lot. Hmmmm.... no wonder people wrongly suspect me!....

If Eomer's innocent 1) He thinks I'm probably innocent and I'm his guinea pig and he's trying to see if he can flush out a werewolf trying to vote safely. (2) He thinks I may be a werewolf and I'm his guinea pig and he's trying to see if he can determine who's probably innocent. (3) If he's a werewolf, he knows I'm innocent and is trying to get me lynched. If he's the ordo lover, he (1) & (2) apply, but so does (3) except for him not being a werewolf. Have the Lovers been allowed to communicate before Day 1?

I agree with you on Ang, Glirdan, & Garin.

I have a sixth sense about Gurthang as another werewolf. Let's look through his posts, eh?

Spawn:

Fair enough. It's just my habit to suspect Kath, I guess. If I'm still alive tomorrow, I'll keep an eye on her, though.

Unnecessary, perhaps, but my experience is that wolves just love to be tricky. However, looking at toDay's voting, I don't think that there were wolf on wolf votes.

Another thing is that Samwise went after Cailin because she mentioned eight names. What about Gurthang ? He just agreed with something that Guthang said about TGWBS. Perhaps they're both wolves...

Samwise's way to say it seemed similar to Aiwendil's behaviour in last game. Samwise tried his best to make a good case out of a minimal amount of material and then he asks what people think about it. If others would have said that he might be onto something, he could have voted for Cailin and no-one would have found his vote suspicious - even if Cailin would have been lynched and proven innocent.

That's why I think polling fellow villagers is suspicious, because if you're innocent, you can't really trust but yourself, no matter what others say. But if you're a wolf, that's a good way to find out what's regarded as suspicious and what's not.

Okay. I don't know about the Lovers' PMing, though.

I've looked now at Gurthangs posts.

#20, the lover theories.
I think it's a silly idea that the lovers would openly leave clues for each other. That doesn't make sense. Besides, is he trying to make people concentrate on the Lover issue instead of finding the wolves? Hmm...
He also mentiones Lhuna - is this the infamous 'mild suspicion of a fellow wolf' act?

[paranoia]Also, would an innocent be so bold as to hint himself to be a seer, lover and a wolf in one post? A good chance for a wolf to confess his wolvishness without that no-one pays attention.[/paranoia]

#42, TGWBS & Naria
Says maybe we should vote for him and then takes it back.
Kind of snaps at Naria although to me it seems that she didn't even suspect Gurthang when she pointed out that he had already mentioned six suspicious people. Weird.

#96, abandons his old theories
I don't know what to say.

#126, #130, a vote + about tomorrow
I've never seen Gurthang in a WW game at this time. Is he a wolf who wanted to make sure that his or his fellow wolves' fur wasn't in danger of getting skinned?

Possibly worth dreaming of, I think.

LMP:

Yes, I agree that Gurthang is a prime candidate for dreaming; Samwise comes in second for me ... so far ... and that may change come end of Day 2.

I'd like to work out a strategy with you as to what to plan for down the road. At some point the werewolves are probably going to manage to kill one of us. What should the remaining seer do? For how long? etc.

If one of us starts getting enough votes to be lynched, say me, do I go silent as the lamb, or do I say I'm one of the seers and give the village what I know so far?

Back to one of us, you for example, getting killed by werewolves. The longer that doesn't happen, the better obviously. If it happens tonight and....

(1) Gurthang turns out to be a werewolf, do I "come out" with my two werewolves, or not? I'd hate to see such valuable info get wasted.
(2) ....and Gurthang turns out to be innocent, what then?

Day 2 seems awfully early to reveal with only one werewolf known by us; two known and it seems like it might be worth it.

Each Day further in, and the more it seems worth revealing if we have two werewolves to point out.

What do you think we should do, when?

Spawn:

Shall I PM Nilp that we pick Gurthang, then, or do you want to do that? I'm ready to wait till next Night with Samwise. Gurthang seems more influential, so it's better to make sure what he is first.

Strategy, well, if it's certain that one of us is a goner, the other one should probably vote with the majority. It may look incriminating to other villagers, but the wolves might be fooled. In that case, whichever of us is going to get lynched should reveal all we know.

If it looks like you're in danger of getting lynched tomorrow, I won't probably defend you, right? I don't know if silence is the best defense... Luckily we can PM during Day, too.

If one of us gets killed by the wolves toNight... that's a tough one. I certainly hope it won't happen, but if Gurthang is a wolf, maybe it would be best for the remaining Seer then leave some obvious clues of our dreams and hope that the wolves will miss them. If Gurthang's innocent, maybe it's best to mildly hint to his innocence and keep your fingers crossed. I don't know. I have a terrible feeling that I won't last long in this game.

It's hard to tell yet when it would be ideal for one of us to step forth. I guess we'll have to see what happens in the next few days, but basically, if a Seer can name two wolves, that's pretty good. Naturally, I'd like to wait as late as possible so that we could give the villagers more information, though.

LMP:

I agree on voting with the majority. Seers need to hide just as much as werewolves do .... it's why they get suspected of being werewolves as like as not.

Yes on revealing all we know if it looks like one of us is going to get lynched. But! ..... speak up before it's too late to get Lhuna lynched so that it can have an effect the same Day.

Don't defend me if I look in danger of getting lynched, and I won't defend you. I fear that I may have tipped our hand a little bit by listing THREE substantive posts by you compared to only one by everybody else. But well, that's the way it looked. And I guess I can use that as my "duh, it's obvious" defense should somebody call me on it.

Okay on leaving clues if the werewolves kill one of us toNight. Except, not obvious. Rather, do it using the "build a case" method. Build the case against Lhuna (& Gurthang if he's lupine), and in mild defense of Lal and others we think are innocent. That way, it looks no more like seer talk than anybody else's, until after we're both gone - at which point they'll be all over it like "white on rice".

That terrible feeling is how I felt when I saw Eomer's vote against me. I think my heart rate doubled in the space of five seconds. Like, "Game on!"

The longer we can hold off, the better. As long as we're both alive, we can play it cool. As soon as there's only one of us left, it's hint time. When one looks to be lynched, give the goods, which will take some pressure off the one remaining. Sound good?

[/Night 2 PMs]

[Gurthang]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Also, would an innocent be so bold as to hint himself to be a seer, lover and a wolf in one post? A good chance for a wolf to confess his wolvishness without that no-one pays attention.

Well, that gets a resounding YES! I was sort of running out of crazy Day 1 things to do, so I thought I'd hint at everything. I was also going to be out on the Range doing some Hunting, but that didn't fit with the game.

Nice to know that I'm always suspicious enough to get dreamed of... great if innocent, but if I'm ever a wolf, that will bite me hard.

P.S. But I can hardly wait.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

dancing spawn of ungoliant can read minds.

This game will be transplanted to the Grimoire.

[Cailín]

Well, I did not really post my thoughts about how the Lovers worked out yet.

I do think that in principle, we could make them work. It was a bit unfortunate the Seers dreamt of Lhuna on Night 1 and since Lhuna always manages to attract early suspicion ( ) I doubt they would have made it to the end. Of course, this game was loaded with mathematics but we can mostly ascribe that to the double-lynchings. I do admit that the Lovers have quite a rough time and I don't see a Lover win happening anytime soon... but then, you never know.

The Oathsworn may work better, but I prefer keeping to the Lovers as Nilp used them. I am not even sure whether having two male or two female Lovers / Oathsworn would improve the odds for them. Well, I will ponder this some more for my own upcoming game. They definitely made an interesting and exciting addition to the village, though.

Wow… Spawn had it all figured out, I see. Absolutely unbelievable.

Nilp - I must say, I was both surprised and relieved you did not make me and Eomer Lovers (as I admittedly suspected you might ). We wouldn't have lasted a day, I am sure.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I'm all for keeping the Lovers as they are. They probably won't win a game, but if they do it will be the most glorious victory of them all.

[littlemanpoet]

Spawn:

So, Gurthang is an ordinary. It's good to know that. Maybe it would be good not to pay too much attention to him if he goes on about you and Eomer. As an innocent he will want an explanation, but ...

Depending on Samwise's behaviour, do you think it would be safe to make a case against him? If he's a wolf he might get scared and kill me the next Night (if I'm not already dead by then). It might be a good cover to slightly attack Gurthang, but then again if the one of us who has suspected him gets killed everyone will think that he's guilty and that would require the remaining Seer to step forward. Okay, maybe it wasn't a good idea.

I want to know if I'm alive before planning more.

LMP:

Oh well. So much for sixth sense. But good info nonetheless. Yes, go ahead and mildly attack Samwise. The villagers expect one of your typical posts of analysis; now's the time for it, if we're both still alive. I have to check that yet. Yes, mildly defend Lalaith and Gurthang and mildly question Lhuna now, I think. But not by clues; werewolves are looking for those. Rather, do it in the course of reasoned argument. That's probably the best way. Looks less like a sore thumb that way.

Lhuna has given us enough rope with which to get her hanged if we play it smart. "I was afraid Ang was a seer" and now he's dead. Just take away the flowery ww hiding adjectives.

I'm beginning to wonder if Lhuna and Lal aren't playing an insidious game. Lh's vote against Lal came long after it wouldn't do any harm.

Spawn:

Well, we have to be extra smart if we want to get her killed without risking either of us. I noticed that line, too. Does it mean that they thought Anguirel was a Seer because of someone that he suspected was a wolf or because of the way he talked..?

I'd like to observe for a while what directions the discussions take today before starting to make cases.

Hmm, Samwise slightly questions Lhuna. On second thought, maybe it's not a good idea to attack him now.

Lalaith defends Kath and defends herself against Lhuna's vote and my opinion that her vote was based on occupations. Why didn't she say anything of Cailín's vote? Okay, it was a 'random' vote, but why did she choose to answer me when I had just slightly suspected her among many other people? Was Cailín's vote for Lalaith prearranged...

Notice how most of those to gather votes are males? I just had a thought: what if all of the wolves are females. If that's the case, I'd say Kath, Cailín and Lalaith are guilty.

LMP:

I think you're onto something. I just (partially) read #140 by Lal, and I see her asking "what do you think"? She reminds everyone that werewolves can PM day and night. I had forgotten. So a coordination of not only votes but discussion points is well within possibility. I'm reading all of these four women's posts with a very critical eye before I speak up. Mum's the word.

Spawn:

I'm just making a post... "Mum's the word" like, we don't want to get our hands dirty by mentioning them?

Seriously, those ladies creep me out.

What do you think Valier is playing at? In her post #185, she italicized letters i, d, o, h, e and p, and bolded letters e, a and s.

All I can make out of that is 'I do a sheep'.

LMP:

By mum's the word, I mean don't hint that you're the seer. Always couch your real knowledge in rational language so that it doesn't appear seerish until after you're dead. At least, that seems the safest way to me.

Spawn:

Never mind about Valier, though. She changed the boldings; now it says that she doesn't eat sheep or something.

Do you think it would be safe to vote for Lhuna because I don't have that much time left now?

LMP:

With a well reasoned case, which I think Lhuna has provided us with already, I think it's quite reasonable to vote for her. Getting a werewolf lynched without saying we're the seers is the best we can hope for. I'll hold off voting for her for toDay unless she really comes out with something more substantively self-indicting. Good luck!

Spawn:

Okay. I try to find something that would incriminate her more to go with my vote. Good luck to you, too!

Just wanted to say that I think we can trust tar-ancalime and Eomer. They're suspecting the right people, aggressively, without our help.

I'm thinking that Lalaith or Cailín should be our choice tonight.

LMP:

Ack. In 181 tar-ancalime includes me in a list of three possible seers. Grrrr.

I felt that Lhuna had done herself enough damage that it was safe to vote for her too. This way, the werewolves have at least to pick between you and me.

I'm thinking that I really want to know about either Cailin or Lalaith; Cai seems the more wolvish of the two. My case against Lal has a look of being somewhat trumped up. I don't think Kath is the fourth werewolf. Unless she's being cannily quiet, which is not an impossibility; but the case against her that we have is very rickety.

Though Gurthang may be innocent, that doesn't mean he isn't the Lover. What has he said against our primary suspects? Anything?

I'm inclined to think that Samwise is likely to be innocent, since he voted for Lhuna.

I think Thin, Valier, and Naria are sort of off on a tangent, having to do with being more familiar with each other from WWJ.

tar suspecting Eomer looks honest to me. Celuien does too. I don't trust Formy.

Spawn:

We are thinking very similarly. But first of all: grrrrr! It was obvious that Eonwe was an ordinary. Hmph.

Cailín is worrying me the most now. She said that she sympathises with most arguments against Lhuna and then uses a whole paragraph to defend her. Besides, she seems more "wolvishly arrogant" than usual.

Cailín said: "Anyone else in favour of lynching another guy tonight? Rid the wolves of the male population and increase our chances of finding the Lover soon? Heheh. I bet the Ordo-Lover will vote for a female player tonight."

That was just really weird. Why would the Ord Lover vote for a female? Besides, that whole remark supports the idea that all the wolves are ladies.

Also: "I only just realised when reading back that I completely forgot to analyse Gurthang." ~Cailín

Are they lovers..?
She voted for Eonwe which was yesterDay's safe bandwagon vote. Lalaith and Lhuna voted for him, too.

Samwise is probably innocent, but could be a Lover if Gurthang or Form aren't.

I don't know what to think of Kath anymore. The fact that wolves can PM all the time makes it easier for them to build situations that look too risky for wolves to do while in fact, they've got it covered (like voting, for example).

Lommy's attack on TGWBS is somewhat weird, but I think that's because she's never played with Nilp (as far as I know). I think the Naria and Valier are innocent. When you look at the 'Who's posted' list, it's funny, how Cara has suddenly made it to the top three although she's saying little. I think she's innocent though because of her vote for Lhuna, but then again, it might have been orchestrated by the wolves.

TGWBS is much quieter than what I'm used to, but maybe that's because of the timezones.

Okay, I'll stop rambling now. I'm up for dreaming of Cailín. Is that okay with you, or do you think there's someone else who'd be a better choice?

LMP:

Cailin it is, unless you and I both already are pretty darned sure she's a werewolf. If not, let's dream her. Two werewolves to report is pretty good. If we're already pretty sure of her, then who?(we have all Night to work this out...)

Spawn:

If we both think that Cailín is a wolf, it would indeed be a possibility to pick someone else. Then again, it would be good to be sure of her, too.

Cailín has spoken much of other villagers accusing and defending them, so knowing if those words are spoken by a wolf or an innocent is valuable information, I think. I will PM Nilp that we choose Cailín. If we're still both alive next Night, I'll have better access to computer.

LMP:

I tend to think that we've covered our seerishness as regards Lhuna pretty well with good reasoning in every case; thanks to Lhuna for giving us so many opportunities. If they think one or both of us is the seer, and they're already feeling desperate, they'll try to kill one of us tonight. Desperate, because if they kill us, then the whole village knows one of us was the seer, and suddenly they take a good hard look at the people we've been accusing. They're in a difficult position. If they feel they need to cut their losses (namely Lhuna & maybe Cailin), they'll kill one of us tonight. If they're afraid to cut their losses, hoping we're not the seers (which would be sort of stupid or foolishly hopeful - been known to happen), they'll avoid killing us because killing us would definitely raise suspicion against Lhuna, Cailin, and Lalaith if they think we're not seers. So we're in a good position right now.

If one of us gets killed tonight, I feel the other needs to step up and say what we've learned. This is because if one of us is revealed as a seer, it's not that hard to figure out that the other of us is also. So that means that it's sort of approaching seer end game, depending upon how desperate the werewolves feel. What do you think?

************

Spawn never got to respond to this last rather off-the-path stuff from me because she'd been killed. She did do me the honor of telling me this, though: "Shush! We're not supposed to PM anymore; but I know who the werewolves are."

Boy, did I feel dumb.

[Formendacil]

You know, it's hilarious reading these PMs, LMP... You two took yourselves so seriously!

Well, we took you seriously too, but we hadn't a blooming clue as to who you were! We killed Spawn, not because she looked like a Seer, but because we couldn't find a Seer, and we decided to get rid of the next worst thing: thoughtful analysis.

We hoped, of course, that we'd got a seer, but we didn't think so... We expected Spawn to be an innocent, and that we could make it look like Lhuna was framed.

Yeah, we were REAL smart, I know...

P.S. Kath, when do we get the rest of the PMs?

[the guy who be short]

Originally Posted by spawn

What do you think Valier is playing at? In her post #185, she italicized letters i, d, o, h, e and p, and bolded letters e, a and s.

All I can make out of that is 'I do a sheep'.

Brilliant.

Originally Posted by Northvictor

We hoped, of course, that we'd got a seer, but we didn't think so... We expected Spawn to be an innocent, and that we could make it look like Lhuna was framed.

And despite spawn's Seeing tendencies, I still fell for that.

[Kath]

P.S. Kath, when do we get the rest of the PMs?

You can have them now! I just needed reminding. Wow, we were pretty chatty Night 2.

Night 2 – Lhuna
Not much time; I'll be brief.

I think we did a pretty good job toDay. A few suspicions were thrown our way, but for now I think we're safe. We'll just have to properly defend ourselves the next Day if they get to be more serious than they seem.

I think we should make Elempi our Nightly meal. He's being too sensible and frank, it's scary. A lot of other ideas come to mind too, and we have a lot of time to talk about them toNight.

I'll see you around under the light of the Full Moon, fellow wolves.

*howls*

I just had to do that. Hehe.

Must go now. Farewell!


Night 2 – Form
Lhunardawolf, K-wolf, and SamwolfGamgee, I commend thee on day well survived: a village with widely-cast votes, plenty of last minute action, and lots of suspicious characters, of which we are not yet accounted amongst. Excellent!
He's definitely someone to consider... On the other hand, Eomer and him could definitely get a feud going over tomorrow, if Eomer was to keep up his mysterious anti-LMP crusade.

On the other hand, Eomer would look quite conspicuous if he were to die, considering Eomer's Spawn-bluff last game.

I'm not too picky who goes, but I'd like it to be Anguriel, TGWBS, or LMP. They're all really intelligent players, and even as Ordos they'd be quite dangerous. I'd like to kill them off while they're still unsuspicious of us... Anguirel would be my first preference, since LMP can be fooled, and TGWBS has been known to play subpar when not a Werewolf. Any thoughts?


Night 2 – Lhuna
Are we after killing those who leave no trails, those whose deaths will terribly confuse the village, those who are likely to be Seeriffs, or those who are formidable foes whatever their role?

Hmmm...tgwbs...killing him would be deliciously evil, since I'm sure no one would expect him to be killed. And he'll leave no trails.

I too am interested in how the whole Eomer-Elempi thing plays out. So I guess we can leave them be toNight.

Anguirel? He was under some fire toDay, but I'm quite sure he'll emerge unscathed by the next Day. I think he's also worth killing.

I haven't had much chance to scrutinize the posts, so did anyone notice any Seeriff hints? I doubt anyone would be so careless in such an experienced village, but we never really know...

Well, the night's deepening here. Good night, everyone. I'll see you all tomorrow, hopefully with something more substantial to say. *curses schoolwork*


Night 2 – Samwise
Excellent, we're through. Whatsmore we haven't left ourself in a crazy situation, so all's well, as I see it! My question is: is Elempi an alternate name for LMP? Just making sure.

My inclination is for TGWBS at the moment. Reason: I basically saved him by ending the tie and Garin turned out to be innocent. It's unlikely the village will lynch TGWBS tomorrow and if we gobble him up tonight it could help us by removing any suspicions I may have raised. Whatcha think?

But to be honest I'm not too bothered. My other inclination is Ang, but I'm still not 100% happy with that after his little accusation of me.

I would like to leave Eomer alive for the moment though (he's a guy, so don't think us lovers! ) because he will become more influential and if we wait until he's an obvious choice to eat then we'll basically give nothing of our little band away. Also, villagers will be suspicious of him because of his 'black-as-the-night-cold-blooded-evil-cretin' history!


Night 2 – Samwise
What happens when we want to gobble someone? Do we send a PM to Nilp each, or does one of us become spokeswolf?


Night 2 – Kath
I also would be keen on Eomer staying alive a bit longer as he's pointed the finger at me too.

Now what about Gurthang? He's picked up on both me and Form, apparently due to 'hints'. I would be wary of killing him until we know what these hints are.

lmp - well, Gurthang suspects him, any chance of a frame-up there? He is being scarily sensible.

Hmm now Lommy, basically doing as Ang says. I wonder if people would look at her if we killed Ang or whether it's too early to try such things. Still, killing Ang sounds a good idea. I don't think he really looked at any of us and also 'forest instincts' - Ranger hint anyone? He would be my choice tonight.

I think we do need to go for those who have left no trails, hints etc. There are what, 18 people in this village? Well, taking out us leaves 14. Say we can kill 3 trailess people that gets it down to 11/18 right? Which gives us better odds. And hopefully we'll have got a useful innocent in the process. Though getting rid of the loudmouths and experienced/formidable players would be good. Only thing is we need not to have a pattern I think, and not kill all the loudmouths since Form and Lhuna, you're both pretty noisy and it would look suspicious.

I know, pointing out the obvious, it's to help me mostly!

Samwise - yes elempi is analternate for lmp (see ATM) and yes I suppose we need to choose a spokesperson. Best to choose someone who will be here closest to the deadline, would that be Lhuna?

Just so you guys know, I'll be around til midnight GMT and then will be in bed so I can't take part in discussion after then.

Kath


Night 2 – Samwise
I would propose that we in fact all send votes to Nilp and CC the PMs to each other. Reason being, in a few days time we'll be thinking more and more of lovers, and as the villagers having reasons for our votes would be helpful. What say ye?

My greedy eyes are still filled with TGWBS, I'm reluctant to lynch Ang because any accusations he made will be used.

On an aside: Kath, are you the girl on the left or right in your photo on Tigerlily's page? I just like to have an idea in my head of my fellow village-eaters!


Night 2 – Kath
What exactly are you proposing Samwise? To all PM Nilp and then send what we PMed to each other?

I'd prefer to kill Ang rather than Guy though.

I'm on the left (I think).


Night 2 – Form
Nominating a spokewolf is fine by me... Or two/three/four of us can do it.

As long as Nilp gets the message...

And, for that reason, it may be best if Lhuna's not the spokewolf. Sorry, sis, but if we want to give Nilp as much lead time as possible, it may be best if it isn't his timezones twin passing on the messages (you'd have to read up on all our notes, reply to them, and then toss Nilp an answer- all before 8:30 am your time).

Once we're at a consensus, let's just chuck Nilp a PM. Of course, there's always the danger that his PM box will be full...

Now, regarding the kills...

If someone thinks they know who the Seers are, then by all means, step up and say so! Lover-Wolf, if your Innocent partner has ideas on this, by all means pass on the message- the village doesn't favour your lot any more than ours.

However, I am well known to be pathetic at diving Gifted Hints. That's the reason I'm advocating taking out TGWBS or Anguirel: we may as well kill off someone liable to be highly dangerous as to kill off a random villager.

On the other hand, killing TGWBS or Anguirel could point fingers at Lhuna, Kath, or myself, since we've played quite a few games. Maybe we should look at some lesser-known, less-renowned player? One with no tracks leading back to us, of course...

Just a few thoughts...


Night 2 – Form
X-PMed with you, m'dear K-wolf...

If it comes down to Anguirel and TGWBS, I'd rather kill Anguirel, if only because he's been more into the game this Day 1 than TGWBS.

That's two Anguirel votes? If Samwise agrees, shall we PM Nilp right now with our majority- since Lhuna's probably asleep until close to the deadline?


Night 2 – Kath
Samwise isn't keen on killing Ang due to him having some suspicion of him earlier. But I don't know that a bit of vague Day 1 suspicion can't be explained away as a random accusation. If Ang turns out the be the Seer we have a problem, if not we should be ok so long as you can argue your way out of it Samwise.

If you agree Samwise then yes Form we probably should PM Nilp soonish just in case Lhuna isn't available to do it.

PS: Seems Lhuna has too many PMs now, so it will have to be one of us.


Night 2 – Form
A vague Day 1 suspicion can easily be reconstrued as a frameup for Samwise by the "real Wolves" (mwahahaha!). The only way, as I see it, that we'd really be endangering one of our own is if Anguirel is a seer.

If he is, then I hope Samwise that we can trust you to be valiant and take one for the team- assuming that the village even picks up on Anguirel's suspicion. They probably will, but villagers being villagers, they might interpret it in a light we wholly can't imagine.


Night 2 – Samwise
Ok, well I'll side with getting rid of Ang tonight. If we're decided on that then one of us should PM Nilp soonish.
I haven't sent this to Lhuna, by the way, her inbox is full.


Night 2 – Kath
Ok so we’re all agreed (ish). Who wants to be spokeswolf and PM our dear Mod?


Night 2 – Form
Nor did I with this or my last...

Well, if that's settled, then I'll PM Nilp.

y'all are welcome to do the same if you feel it absolutely necessary.


Night 2 – Kath
Oops, cross PM'd there. OK Form go ahead.


Night 2 – SamwiseGamgee
Go for it, Form. Oooh, manflesh! Yum!

On an interesting aside: does it work to our advantage in any way if we try to keep the male to female ratio as close to 1:1 as possible? I'm trying to think of any offshoots it may have: or indeed of stacking the odds against one sex, perhaps? Who knows!

Now, let's eat some Ang!


Night 2 – Kath
That is interesting. Perhaps if we aimed to kill off all the males (for example) it would help flush out the Lover faster? Or females, either works.


Night 2 – Form
There's definitly potential to the idea...

On the other hand, this is a large village, and such things take time. Meanwhile, the Seers are a more dangerous threat, as I see it.

So unless Nilp has balanced the genders again with the Seers, I do think that- at the moment- we should be worrying too much about gender.


Night 2 – Samwise
Well, obviously Form and I would prefer to try and kill all the females: as it would make our lives somewhat quieter!

But I think the idea is a runner. We'll talk about it later, I imagine. Take time to mull over it.

Form, will you PM us when you've PM'd Nilp, please.


Night 2 – Kath
Fair points but so far we have no clue as to the identity of either Seer. And it is worth thinking about, especially as the number of villagers begins to decline, as a gender imbalance may prove helpful, especially if we can convince the villagers that they want to aim for the Lover!

Haha Samwise

It's just unfortunate (or cleverly planned) that we wolves are half of each gender!


Form’s PM to Nilp
Lord Melkor,

A majority of your wolves, Weredacil, the K-wolf, and SamwolfGamgee, have selected the villager known as Anguirel as our meal of the night. Trusting that the Lady Lhunardawolf shall not oppose our tastes, we shall begin devouring forthwith.

~Weredacil~


Night 2 – Form
Already done, and erm... deleted...

Gotta keep that PM box empty, y'know.

Basically, I believe I said something to the effect of:


Night 2 – Form
Cleverly planned, no doubt...

Alas, though, for me and Samwolf, between Garin and Anguirel, we're already two males down... So if we do end up going for a gender imbalance, 'twill be probably to a decreasing of the male side- although the village does not know that Nilp balanced the Wolves' genders, a fact we could play to our advantage.


Night 2 – Kath
Yes it is true, but does mean at least we've begun a slide in one direction if it does become appropriate to follow it up. And yes it could help if it was vaguely suggested that this imbalance showed that the wolves must mostly be females. Could lead to some easily influenced lynchings.


Night 2 – SamwiseGamgee
Yeah, someone definitely said that there was no evidence or clues that we were two females and two males during the first day, so we can play on that misconception to get rid of, par example Dancing Spawn!


Night 2 – Form
Somehow I doubt we'd be able to make that fly... Spawn and Nilp being what they are, I think it'd take a LOT of evidence to sway the village into voting for her. Nilp, has, unwittingly or wittingly, given her a certain amount of protection by his outright declarations of devotion.

On the other hand, since he and Spawn couldn't be Lovers in the game, it's possible that the village could imagine him giving her one of the headlining roles: as a Werewolf (especially if we are so unlucky as to lose Kath and/or Lhuna, since with Spawn they create a trio of Nilp's most associated-with 'Downers).

Interesting thoughts, to be sure...

I am convinced that Nilp's choice of us is not random- and it's highly possible that his choice of the Lovers isn't as well. However, persuading the village to vote on such suspicions could be highly volatile, since it would endanger Lhuna and Kath, and possibly myself. Even you, Samwise, are considered an associate of Nilp's, if only because of your membership in the Warg and Warg Rider Appreciation Society.


Night 2 – Samwise
Having eaten his fill, SamwolfGamgee crept off back to his comfortable house to get a decent night's sleep before another crazy day in the heady world of banking!
See y'all tomorrow.


Night 2 – Samwise
I agree with your 'not random' points, and that's why I'm already 90% sure I know who the lovers are. Spawn will be hard to kill, that's why I put that in: more as a joke than anything else. Well, I'm def going to bed now!


Night 2 – Kath
Agreed we'd have very little support in trying to take down spawn.

But Form you make an excellent point. If roles have been decided on the merit of personal relationships between Nilp and members then who should we look at in terms of that? We have two Seers, a Hunter, a Ranger and two Lovers yes?

spawn (obvious) - good Seer candidate?
Jay (I know they PM a lot) - again a Seer possibly?
Farael - we know he admires Nilp.
Eomer
Ang

Anyone else you can think of?

Samwise if you think you know who the Lovers are then please share! I know one of us does hold that role, but obviously they can't kill you so it's worth a look.


Night 2 – Lhuna
I'm all for Anguirel, too. I think killing him will incriminate innocents as well as a few of us. And his sudden jumping on Kath (or so it seemed) made me feel uncomfy. Anguirel for me.

We'll get the guy who be short if he makes more sense tomorrow; if he's a good Nilp impersonator, he will. So long as his death doesn't incriminate us!

I think it's a good idea to kill an experienced player now. The village will think the wolves might not be so experienced, that's why they took out one of the daunting villagers. Then we'll confuse them by killing someone less experienced the next Night, if circumstances will allow.

Have I missed some PMs? If I did, I'm sorry...but I was either fast asleep or on my way to school when you were PMing each other!

Oh, and for that spokeswolf...Nilp told me that if ever we get to decide on a victim early we should tell him earlier to give him time to prepare the death. Since most of the time I'll be here only just before the phase ends, I do think it's best not to make me the spokeswolf. Most of the time, anyway.

Lhunardawolf


Night 2 – Kath
Oh Lhuna my love you have missed so many. Here they all are. Beware, it’s a long read. To tell you now Form has PMed Nilp and we are killing Ang. Hope you don’t mind!
(Copy of PMs she missed).


Night 2 – Lhuna
*curses timezones*

You'll probably get used to it in time, if you haven't yet. Try not to have too much fun without me, and whatever you do...please do update me!

By the way, thanks for that summary, Kath. If summary it is.

So...goodbye Anguirel. We hope you're a Seer. Don't worry, I think we'll be looking hard at a lot of innocent people after his death.

Just some comments:

Hmm...if we kill the males one by one by Night, they might think that the Lover Wolf is possibly another male trying to protect his lover by subtly swaying his fellow wolves, so they'll lynch males as well. Someone might present that idea to the village tomorrow, and of course it will make me and Kath feel safer! I don't know, but I'll say let's keep the gender more or less balanced to keep them confused. That way there's less chance that they'll target a specific gender, and there will be equally less danger for each of us.

Wait! Our picking was completely random. Nilp himself was surprised with who turned out to be wolves. I saw the strips of paper on which he wrote the names and the roles. I'm not so sure about the Lovers, though. And I don't think we should really worry about our (all of us) close association with Nilp. I don't really understand why that's a concern anyway, can anyone please explain?

I agree with Kath, Sam...please let us know! It will most likely make our lives a bit easier.

See you at the dawn of the *eew* Day! Goodbye, dear Moon!


Day 2 – Form
Keeping it balanced could be useful as well... and as one of the short-listed side, I'm kind of inclined that way, but we'll see how the voting tomorrow goes. If a male is lynched, it is probably in our best interests to keep the trend up.
Are you SURE it was completely random, Lhuna?

Because, quite frankly, the list of us Wolves is highly suspect, and Nilp also has the right sort of personality, in my opinion, to predetermine the roles.

And, to be perfectly honest, although I did allow randomness to play its part in my own picking as a Mod, I deliberately steered certain players- not going to name names..- away from the big roles, and even blatantly placed Kuruharan in the Cursed role.

And I had every last name on a piece of paper matched up with every last role on a piece of paper.

So, what I want to know, is did you actually see Nilp pull the names out (whether or not you saw the names is another matter) or did you just see the papers afterwards?

Because it'd be really interesting to have an insight into who Nilp would see as appropriate Seers, Lovers, Hunter, and might help us out in the game.
I am curious as well. I know it's not me... If I had to guess, I'd peg Kath as the Lover, but I don't want to start randomly accusing our own team as well as the enemy.
We'll see... He could easily lynch himself without our help, so I'm fine with leaving him for now, but if he begins to get suspicious... or if YOU and he start looking like the Lovers (now THERE is a Nilpian connection for you), then I won't hesitate to bring it up at one of our nightly councils.


Night 2 – Form

Well that's a relief!

Then scratch that idea- for the time being. If the Seers and/or the Lovers bear out what I (or someone else) thinks Nilp would rig, then we may need to look at it again.

And of course the villagers have no idea who we are, but since WE know who we are, and since we DO look like a pretty handpicked group, it's a good idea to see if we can use this special knowledge to our benefit.

That's no punishment! He's Nilp! He'd vote for it too!

Friend or foe? Ally or enemy?
Both?

Yes sister dear, I know the enmity you and your other big bro have in this game, but it would have been a VERY Nilpian choice, I think, to make you the Lovers, and if he did, then your vendetta is the perfect cover.

I'm just trying to keep an open and balanced mind, aware of all the options, and to try and get this pack through the game as victors!

[the guy who be short]

So... close...

I would have loved to be eaten. I really would've.

[Kath]

Sorry TGWBS, I guess we were hoping you'd get yourself lynched!

Day 2 – Samwise
So, I just accused Lhuna and more subtly Form on the thread. Odd, no? Well, a calculated risk. It's early, and the accusation is unlikely to fly through for a lynch. Also, if any one of us is lynched it'll distance us from each other, which is a positive. Frankly, I think the post is more likely to endanger me than anyone else, but I did it and now we shall see if my masterplan works.

Lovers are Lhuna and Eomer, by the way!


Day 2 – Lhuna
Oh Samwolf...you really like living on the edge don't you? I almost fainted reading that! But you're right; it's a lame suspicion anyway.

Dear Eomer and me, Lovers? How I wish. Haven't you read my last PM?


Day 2 – Form
Agreed in principle, although I continue to speculate- for the fun of it for as much as anything else...

Actually, I really have to wonder if Cailín isn't a Lover, since it was her idea in the first place- Nilp merely appropriated it. That being said, Samwise must be the male lover since it is not I.

However, neither Samwise or Cailín are under suspicion (although I have cast a touch of suspicion in Sam's direction), so we needn't worry one way or another at this time.
Aye, there's the danger right now...

You and Lhuna are both under suspicion today- Lhuna seems to be having the worse load of it, hampered of course by her inability to defend herself until late- by which point it may be rather too late.

I hope that Lhuna doesn't end up the lynchee. The day is still young enough to swing another way. However, it is disheartening to note that no other prominent candidates are becoming prominent.

One good thing about Lhuna going, if going she does, is that it should help us keep Kath for another day.

I suppose the question is going to come up: if Lhuna looks liable to be lynched, do we save her or do we vote against her- and this applies to any dying comrade.

Well, in my own case, I will probably not cast a vote against her. I've given Lhuna the benefit of the doubt in too many games for this to appear unusual. It could also (since my vote will likely come quite late in the day) be construed as a Wolf-on-Wolf vote.

I will not, however, cast any vote that could save her. Sorry, sis, but that really speaks of Wolfish. At this point in the game, I can't risk that. I may, however, cast a vote either for Samwise or for Kath, so that if either of them is killed on a later date, I'll have some protection.

Samwise, however, if I may counsel you, should definitely vote for Lhuna is there's a bandwaggon developing in that direction. You will, as the original persuader against Lhuna, getting Spawn to vote in that direction, will be looked at as almost definitely innocent. What's more, you'd look incredibly inconsistent if you didn't.

Kath, I won't try and give you any suggestions as to how to vote. If you vote for Lhuna, though, it'd be best to do it earlier, rather than late (I think your timezones would be advantageous here).

Lhuna- sorry about all the doom and gloom. I'm hoping you make it. If not, though, I'm sure you understand that we need to make full use of your death.


Day 2 – Samwise
Well, guys, this is great fun! I'm not joking! Seriously!

Form, kudos for your accusation of me post- I was mad and yet in pure admiration at the same time.

Lovers: It's not me! I'm less inclined to think Lhuna and Eomer now, but still they're my main suspects. LMP's #219 was interesting, don't you think? Maybe we have to reevaluate our relaxed attitude to the lovers? It's very difficult to say anything knowing there's a traitor in our ranks.

And as far as alliances during the day go: look at the title of the PM. Be calculating and cold- we're werewolves, guys! The less we act with allegiances during the day the less likely we are to be found out. However, also be careful. My Lhuna accusation has run and I really didn't expect it to. Now I need to vote for her, and she could well get lynched. That could be helpful or just bad. It is obviously very cold on my part, but I want to make werewolf history here and be the most brutal pack ever. It's dog eat dog, but so goes.

Don't do anything daft like saying: I know x and x are wolves, because that's just suicidal. Remember, we do want a WW victory!...Or rather, 3 of us do!


Day 2 – Kath
Do you think I can get away with voting for Eomer? I'm under so much suspicion today anyway, and he voted for me. I want to get this bandwagon going as he is just way to close on our trail, but this could seriously backfire on me.

Opinions please!


Day 2 – Samwise
My advice is don't. I think we wolfkin will scrape through today, and the longer we leave Eomer alive the more suspicious the village will grow of him. If we survive day three and he's still causing headaches then we could think about eating him, but I'd be a bit reluctant about that.

Lhuna, sorry about the vote, but I don't think you'll get lynched. Calculated risks, you know.


Day 2 – Form
Without having read the thread, I can't say for sure at the moment, but I'd say that a "retaliation" vote is something to avoid- they draw far too much attention to oneself.

Possibly more later... got friends over, and I need to vote.

See, this is why I blame Samwise for my early demise. Lhuna was the Lover and she did less damage!

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Kath

See, this is why I blame Samwise for my early demise. Lhuna was the Lover and she did less damage!

So I had nothing to do with it? Well, at least I tricked Naria into thinking I was the Seer I still think I should have played a Seer revelation... LMP would have dreamt of meand found me an ordo, but then the wolves would have killed me.

It would have been fun anyway, I had written one but I decided to delete it... silly me.

[Kath]

Oh you certainly played a part Farael! But you might not have needed to had Lhuna's traitorous head not been on the block as it was. At least not til later.

[Lhunardawen]

There. All my hatred towards Eomer for everyone to see.

We should have killed him earlier to convince Samwise that we're NOT the Lovers, especially since I think Samwise picked dancing spawn for the Night kill to frame me so much that I'll be lynched!

Then again, if we were the Lovers, I would have willingly sacrificed myself just to see him killed! Hehe. Kidding, big bro. I think.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

You could try anything and it wouldn't work, Lhuna. I'm permanently one step ahead.

I do wish we could be allies once, though. Maybe next time.

I want to hear about Form and Sam's conversation on the next night.

[Kath]

Lhuna and I aren't finished yet Eomer! Night 3 PM's here. This was the Night we had a major problem, because Nilp's inbox was full and Samwise repped him but we weren't sure he'd see it. I can't remember quite what we did to let him know now but it may have involved repping Lhuna (who also had a full inbox) and hoping she'd get the kill across to Nilp. Definitely a confusing Night!

Night 3 – Samwise
Well, we survived. Shame that Eonwe went so early, but then we were staring down the barrel of a wolf getting lynched. Haven't read what I missed in any kind of detail, so I'll do that before suggesting a candidate for lynching.


Night 3 - Kath
3/4 of us were under a lot of suspicion toDay and Lhuna barely made it through. Had the Day gone on much longer I think she would have been in serious danger.

Which brings us to the kill toNight and behaviour tomorrow. What with the 'revelation' that Eonwe was innocent:

Kath - defended Lhuna and voted Eonwe.
Samwise - votes Lhuna having begun the suspicions against her.
Form - defends Lhuna and Samwise (ish) and votes Kath (oh thanks )
Lhuna - voted Eonwe.

Which leaves Lhuna and I with something of a problem as we both voted for an innocent and seem to be working together.

*sigh* I so, so want to kill Eomer. But I've been under suspicion from him all Day and after one comment from Ang as to me being wolvish led to all that scrutiny toDay I'm not sure it's such a fantastic idea.

But Eomer or Farael would be my choices toNight. They put me right in the spotlight and so might get people to stop concentrating on Lhuna so much. But some of the players in this game tend to trust my innocence and 'rational mind' so I might get away with it. What do you guys think.


Night 3 – Samwise
Ok, just a quick PM before I head out.

We shouldn't kill Eomer tonight, that's my thought. We should kill a female. Some of the villagers mooted the idea of culling one sex: we should show that we can scupper any plans they may make. Show them who's boss, you know?

I also think if we can manage to frame someone it'd help me get out of my Lhuna suspicion mode. If we go totally random then I can't credibly forget my suspicions of Lhuna without raising my profile, and we should exploit the fact that at present I seem to be the least suspected wolf.

Just thoughts. I'll be back in about 4-5 hours. Please don't rush the vote tonight.


Night 3 – Form
Agreed in principle. For the same reasons that Kath voiced, I'd be extremely wary of killing Eomer right now. I think Kath can pull through for a while yet- if we don't go pointing fingers straight at her.

That said, I'm also in agreement about the sex thing. Samwise and I are the less-suspected wolves. Let's keep that fact alive by not narrowing down the number of male villagers left to be suspected of being the Lover.
Stick with the Lhuna suspicion for now. It'll give you incredible credit with the village if she ever ends up lynched. That said, try and shuffle her into a second place candidate- find some other scapegoat. Unless, of course, her lynching looks imminent again, in which case you have to stick to your guns and help vote her out.

Now, since I should be proposing candidates for the lynch tonight, and since I have suggested we lynch a female, let's look at the list of them:

Lhuna
and Kath are on our team, so not someones to consider.

Cailín
Caranlondien
Valier
tar-ancalime
Celuien
Naria
Lalaith
Thinlómien

I would be highly surprised if there wasn't at least one of the Seers hiding on this list. That said, I have no idea who it would be.

For that reason, I'm interested- as usual- in lynching someone with no ties back to us, someone whose death will also deprive the village of a potentially dangerous, intelligent voter.

I'm suggesting Celuien then. I believe (but please correct me if I'm wrong) that she's never posted serious suspicions about any of us (minor ones may be dealt with- and I'm sure the village will manufacture its own "why did they think she was a Seer"? argument). Celuien normally survives for the greater portion of the game, and she's generally non-controversial (ie. not an alternatively suspicious candidate).

So, what do you think? Who knows- we may even get a Seer. I'm betting that they're playing it as cool as the Lovers- not so much as a hint- until one of them is dead. Then the other one will starting hinting (to preserve the record) or tell all outright.


Night 3 – Kath
Ugh, you guys just had to choose long names didn't you. Takes me forever to spell them all right

Back on topic:
Ok so we don't kill Eomer toNight. Can we kill him soon? Please!

Instead we kill a girl. And Celuien has been suggested, let's see. Form you're in her probable innocent list so that's good. She's a bit suspicious of me as she's following Eomer somewhat but doesn't want to look at me too hard because I haven't spoken much. Again good. She does point the finger at Samwise because of all his questions about the Lovers (watch that Samwise or you'll soon have villagers and wolves wondering about you). She says it's ramblings but if she's killed people will look back and wonder. Yes indeed in fact she voted for Samwise! Not so good.

In light of that I'm not sure that Celuien is such a safe kill. If Samwise thinks he can deal with suspicions that will be thrown at him then ok, but it's risky.

But if we are looking for a set up check out Gurthang's last post. 'Kath is handling things calmly, possibly making her an innocent' is the gist of it. If we kill him, it could perhaps make people wonder if the wolves killed him to keep suspicion on me. Might make Eomer think twice.

I realise I seem to want to get myself killed here. Apparently I like living on the edge as a wolf!

Oh and another thought (I'm sorry I seem to want to kill all the males toNight) was TGWBS. He doesn't really say much of any use because of this wolf masquerade. And he only really seems to be attacking Eomer, though he has suspicions of Farael and Gurthang too. Votes Eomer.

Well, make of that what you will. I'll be around a few hours yet.
PS: Lhuna has too many PMs again


Night 3 – Form
You, m'dear, need a computer that remembers the people you've PMed in the past.
Depends on the circumstances. Eomer is very talented at attracting suspicion. It may well be possible to kill him through the village. Furthermore, his continued existence looks good for you, since it suggests that you're NOT a werewolf.
You could well be right about Celuien. I still think her a good kill- a somewhat risky kill tends to be better than a perfectly safe one if you can pull it off, but I agree that it's up to Samwise.
Could well be the case... And Gurthang is another village who's track record suggests that it would be wise to kill him- just like Anguirel.
For that reason it's safe to leave him for now... he's not been dangerous to any of us. True, it would be good to kill him while he's still leaving no trails, but I'm inclined to leave him be for now. His suspicions of Eomer, especially, could help save you if Eomer is ever lynched. The village could well go for him rather than you.
My dear sis is too fond of her PMs, methinks- or else she corresponds with too many people...

Anyway, to candidates.

If we exclude Celuien, I'd say that Lalaith, Cailín, Thinlómien, or Dancing Spawn should be our targets. Naria, Valier, and Caranlondien have all been fairly quiet, rather random, and not particularly dangerous. They're all too easy.

Of the four prospects, I'd like to leave Cailín alive for the moment, since she's typically a magnet for suspicion if left alive long enough- although killing her would be fine if the others want that.

Lalaith is dangerous, if left alive. I'd like to remove her soon, because she's too smart.

Thinlómien has been attracting suspicion of late, so leaving her alive is okay, but I foresee her becoming an accepted Innocent in time. Killing her now would confuse the village a fair bit, I suspect.

That leaves Spawn. I'm really thinking we should kill her. This being Nilp's game, she's got a strike in her favour for being on the good side. She's also way too smart for her own good. Taking her out now, before she's had a chance to point at any of us, is probably a good idea.

So, to sum: I am against no one's being eaten, since no one has really cast a shadow on my reputation yet. I'd like to kill a female over a male, and Spawn is my first choice.

++ Spawn, for our late night snack.

I may or may not be on for much longer. If not, I probably won't be back until close to the deadline- if at all (big event at the Church tonight...). If not, kill whomever you like, and consider it done with my support. I'll try and hang around for a little while in hopes that either Kath or Sam are online.

Had to split this Night's PM's. Rest in next post.

[Kath]

Night 3 – Kath
Points received, understood and agreed with. I want to do a quick check on who spawn has accused/supported through the Days so far but I think killing her is a good move.


Night 3 – Form
Excellent!

I'll be around a bit longer... Completely forgot to do the day's end for Survivor...

Bloody memory!


Night 3 – Kath
Well, she's been a pretty ferocious attacker of Lhuna toDay, but so have a lot of people, so if Lhuna thinks she can handle it we're ok. But we likely have to PM Nilp before Lhuna appears, so I don't know whether we should subject her to this without prior knowledge.

Still, a problem only really arises if spawn turns out to be a Seer. In which case uh oh, as the village will believe she dreamt of Lhuna.


Night 3 – Form
If Spawn is a seer, then we want to get her now, Lhuna's death or no. One death would be sad, but acceptable. We need to catch the Seers before they've dreamed of ALL of us!

If Spawn is not a Seer, then I think we'll be okay... Lhuna's going to be in for a rough day tomorrow whether Spawn's dead or not.

If Samwise agrees, we have a wolfish majority, enough to go to Nilp with. If not... then we've got a problem.


Night 3 – Kath
Sounds very Loverish that Form, but I must say I agree. *sigh* OK, I'll be online til about 2am my time, if Samwise agrees between now and then I'll PM Nilp. If not, well, we'll figure something out.


Night 3 – Samwise
I was going to come on and suggest Spawn, in all honesty, so you have my support. Form is right: at present any of us (though moreso the ladies because of their suspicions) is expendable, so one wolfish death is not the end of the world.

++ Dancing Spawn Of Ungoliant


Night 3 – Kath
Cross posted with Samwise. Form you want to PM Nilp now?


Night 3 – Form
Okay then, I'll contact Nilp (and send the two of you copies).

Kath, I didn't even realise that it could be construed that way, but very well, take it as you will.


Night 3 – Form
Milord Melkor,

Your loyal servants of the 19th Loyal Werewolves wish to inform you that Operation Night 3 is underway. We shall be attacking the Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant installation.

Captains K-wolf, SamwolfGamgee, and Weredacil signing. The Lady Lhunardawolf being absent.


Night 3 – Form
Well, that just rips!

Nilp has exceeded his storage space!

Those Filipinos and their PMs!

Anyway, I've sent you two my rather silly PM, and I trust you'll get the word to him one way or another (I don't think I can even Rep him).

Off for the night,


Night 3 – Kath
I'll rep him and try PMing later, and I'll rep Lhuna if that doesn't work and hope one of them gets the message.


Night 3 – Samwise
I gave Nilp rep, telling him of our kill choice. But someone should keep trying to PM him
I'm off to bed now, guys, so don't rely on me to PM Nilp. We can only hope we can get hold of him.


Night 3 – Lhuna
I hope you're online, big bro; I'm sure Kath and Samwise aren't. Yet again my timezones had a hand in keeping most of your Night conversations from me. Please do give me an update...[/


Night 3 – Nilp
Sorry for my full inbox! As I said, I had very little time Saturday, not even time to clear my inbox.

I'm really sorry. It won't happen again (save on a Saturday. )

So yeah, killing spawn wasn't the smartest idea we ever had

[Cailín]

Of the four prospects, I'd like to leave Cailín alive for the moment, since she's typically a magnet for suspicion if left alive long enough- although killing her would be fine if the others want that.

Thanks for not overestimating me, Form.

I really love you, Kath, for saving all those PMs. Very interesting read.

[Kath]

Ah Cailín we love you really! Here's the last bit of PMing the traitor and I were alive for. After this you'll have to rely on Form and Samwise's memories.

Day 3 – Samwise
Ok, so my 1st post of day three is somewhat crazy. I'm running a fine line, guys, this I know. It'll either go amazingly well or spectacularly wrong. Here's hoping it's the former.

On another note: Eomer must die! He's FAR TOO GOOD. I just hope that his double lynch doesn't fly. On the bright side, though, it'd let me know who the lover was!


Day 3 – Kath
Here you go! Also, sorry to have got you in so much trouble toDay, we had hoped it would look too obvious a set-up, doesn't look like it now


Day 3 – Kath

What did I say, what did I say! How would it let you know who the Lover was Samwise?

*sigh* If anything I think we should start planning the Nights kill now as it seems likely that neither Lhuna or I will be around by toNight at this rate


Day 3 – Form

Comes of playing this game too many times, I fear....

No idea...

I had you pegged as the Lover from the beginning, but that was because of my Nilp-analysis, not from anything you've done.

I don't know. I think we must be resigned to the fact that one of you will go, but I think it's possible that one of you will survive yet.

In the meantime, I agree that we should begin looking at a Kill for the night. We definitely want to start looking for another Seer, if we can. If Samwise and I never get dreamed of, there's a good chance we can make a run for the gold- especially having had hands in lynching you two ladies- if that ends up being the case.

Meanwhile, I think we're going to miss your opinions on things if you end up going, and I can only speak for myself of course but they'll be sorely missed indeed.

The fact that Spawn was a Seer only confirms in my mind the idea that Nilp didn't exactly pick us at random- whatever Lhuna may say. I don't know if you're willing to divulge who the other Lover is, Kath (assuming that you ARE the Lover), but I'd really like to know, to see if it bears out my theory.

If it does, then we really ought to be looking for the second Seer among Nilp's closer acquaintances.

Or, to go with a more serious theory, we ought to be looking at who's suspicions over the past two and half days jived with Spawn's. Who else thought that Lhuna was guilty on Day 2? Who else was suspecting Kath- and Lalaith on Day 1?

Call me wrong, but I'm really thinking it's Eomer. If so, we should eat him tonight. Actually, with the girls nearly gone anyway, we should eat him quickly, before he can start suspecting Samwise or myself. He's too smart to leave alive.


Day 3 – Samwise
Because I know I'm innocent, so if you and Lhuna die today and aren't lovers then I know Form is. And if either of you are then, hey, I don't have to worry anyway- you'll be dead!

I don't really want to start discussing tonight's kill. We still have ten hours of posting left, so let's not be hasty.

Contradictory, this, but what think ye of Farael?

Had to halve it again.

[Kath]

Day 3 - Kath
Oh gee thanks Form If I get lynched I'm blaming you!

Anyway, I'm sorry but I am not the Lover, and so cannot tell you who my counterpart is as I don't have one.

Samwise - a double lynch is really not good for us at the moment whether it tells us who the Lover is or not. We can afford to lose one person perhaps, but not two, not this early with a Seer still running about.

On the subject of the Seers, are we thinking that the second one will be a 'special' pick by Nilp as spawn was? In which case who are we looking at? He seems to have gender balanced everything so far so I'm inclined to agree with Form and think it's Eomer. He needs to die anyway whether he's the Seer or not, and if we do kill him toNight and I'm still alive (unlikely) the villagers will lynch me if he is the Seer so hopefully taking suspicion off Lhuna if she's still alive, and if he isn't we may be able to convince the villagers that I wouldn't put myself in danger 3 Days in a row.

However, if both Seers are female then I would suggest looking at Lalaith. Why? Because spawn mentioned her in passing on Day 1 and has since pretty much ignored her. Spawn and Lalaith are good, experienced players, if they were working together they'd know how to hide their tracks.


Day 3 – Form

Fully deserved, to be sure, but I cannot flipflop and suddenly decide it's Lhuna- and I think I need the security that being an "Innocent" will grant me.

Ah well... I'm sure we'll know one way or another eventually. It just would have been nice to have acquired a bit of confirmation for my theory.

Quite so. I dislike double-lynching in general- as all Werewolf threads with my opinion will show- but I dislike them even more as a Werewolf.

Agreed. It's a bit early to be casting votes for tomorrow's vote, but barring other ideas, I'm really leaning pro-Eomer with regards to the vote. And I am inclined to agree that Nilp would have maintained the gender equity.

Actually, Lalaith also came to mind for me. She's definitely a meal to consider for the future. And, since she's a quieter player, eating her shouldn't box us too much into the "oh look, all the loudmouths are dying! Which ones are left!" situation.


Day 3 – Kath
Lhuna, I'm so sorry

Form I'm certainly agreed on Eomer. If you and Samwise are ok with killing him toNight then go for it. I have to go to bed now and so won't have a clue what's happened until morning. Good luck to you and me!

Could really have done with some of that luck there, but it wasn't to be. Ah well, to next time!

[littlemanpoet]

My my my. Fascinating reading.

I think a reevaluation of hero status is in order, and Eomer merits as first half most valuable player, saving second half merits for Gurthang.

Reading over all the analysis, I'm struck by - how shall we say? - how the werewolves' analysis and the motivations behind them actually worked toward their demise in the end. LotR-ish, that. I kinda like that. Of course, there was a huge amount of luck involved that could still have turned the game in either direction.

Examples: The werewolves left Eomer alive - with good reasons for having done so - one Day too long, such that he was able to do major damage to their cause on his "Day of grace".

Counter-example: If the Seers had gone with Spawn's earliest suspicions, we would have had three of the four werewolves dreamt of on the first three Nights!

[tar-ancalime]

Great game, everyone! I'm sorry about having to leave so suddenly...but I was facing several days without computer access (I'm just now back online), and I pm'ed Nilp to ask how he'd like to handle it. He and I both thought that taking me out during the Night would be better than defaulting my way out of the game by not showing up. It certainly worked well for the Village and I was happy to do my part in absentia; however, I hope my absence didn't skew things too far. I would hate to have been a party to corrupting what was otherwise a fantastic and well-played game.

Now, some other thoughts:

This is the first game I've played in in which I haven't been lynched. Innocent or guilty, I always seem to engender the same amount of suspicion. It eventually gets me killed. The wolves always leave me alive because I take attention away from them. However, in this game I was almost universally exonerated right from the beginning. I played exactly the same way I always do, with one exception:

I KEPT MY BLOODY TRAP SHUT ON DAY 1!

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Eomer

I do wish we could be allies once, though. Maybe next time.

Are you sure you want that? Are you really sure?

Well everyone, so you see, I was supposed to be the traitor but every Night I felt like I was the one being betrayed! Shtoopid timezones.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Ah yes, sorry Kath. Had some sort of brain freeze there.

Fascinating PMs. I know exactly what you were going through, dear: really wanting to kill someone but fearing the ramifications.

[Kath]

I know exactly what you were going through, dear: really wanting to kill someone but fearing the ramifications.

Yes well next time I'll just knock you off Night 1, consequences be damned!